Forming nations should give permanent claims
- Thread starter DaDerpyDude
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Since most manually formed nations are based on nationalism (eg Germany, France if you're a french minor, Italy) it makes sense that they get permanent claims(or cores) as their country claims to represent all the people of their nationality and so they rightfully should own all of those provinces, not just all the provinces they can grab in the next 25 years. Though that being said, it could be kinda OP to give them permanent cores from a gameplay perspective, as then you can go on a conquering spree and not get any aggressive expansion which would not be very historical or sensible, as your enemies would certainly not allow it to happen without a coalition
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Since Germany, which does not have the rights to Alsace and Lorraine (because it's been 25 years), is stupid.
How giving claims to a new formed nation just because it has formed is balanced or realistic?
How is
Claims exist for 25 years.
Form Germany doesn't need of Alsace and Lorraine
France own Alsace and Lorraine
25 years
Germany dont have claim on Alsace and Lorraine
Frech-germany friends 4ever (hideousness)
How should it be
Normal Claims exist for 25 years.
Special Claimss exist forever
Form Germany doesn't need of Alsace and Lorraine
France own Alsace and Lorraine
25 years
Germany still have claim on Alsace and Lorraine
French-germany war of Alsace and Lorraine
Pax
Germany-french war of Alsace and Lorraine
Pax
French-germany war of Alsace and Lorraine
Claims exist for 25 years.
Form Germany doesn't need of Alsace and Lorraine
France own Alsace and Lorraine
25 years
Germany dont have claim on Alsace and Lorraine
Frech-germany friends 4ever (hideousness)
How should it be
Normal Claims exist for 25 years.
Special Claimss exist forever
Form Germany doesn't need of Alsace and Lorraine
France own Alsace and Lorraine
25 years
Germany still have claim on Alsace and Lorraine
French-germany war of Alsace and Lorraine
Pax
Germany-french war of Alsace and Lorraine
Pax
French-germany war of Alsace and Lorraine
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@BFTeixeira - Look at Russia. Russia wanted to unite all east-slavic lands. Russia has always had a claim to eg. Kiev. Even after 120 years (form Russia 1547 - incorporation of the Kiev region 1667).
But that's a cultural claim (if one can call it that way). Muscovy and Novgorod had that goal. It wasn't only after they formed Russia that they considered they were the rightful claimers of Kiev. If we're talking about that, then every single nation should have claims in all provinces in the same cultural group.
I haven't got much knowledge on India, but that's a modern concept. Maybe even a concept only possible because all of them had a common enemy in the western powers.
In game we have Hindustan and Great Mogols as "Great State of Indian subcontinent".
Cores are too much, permanent claims makes sense, since you're pushing for de jure kingdoms in many cases or operating as a nation with a specific goal of unifying the area/culture union.
Doesn't make sense to me. What is a de jure kindgom? If you go by definition, then when you form Spain you should have permanent claims in all portuguese provinces. De jure Spain is all the Iberia Peninsula.
Also, i don't see how forming a nation can have that effect. Saying that Muscovy can only claim Kiev if it changes it's name to Russia it's weird at best.
I don't have a problem with that, or culture-group based claims, etc. They're only claims, and limited in scope. There isn't a single potential "permanent claim spam" that can match the egregious nature of the Burgundian inheritance of Iberian wedding in terms of in-game utility, not even Qing. It gives people who like forming these nations something to shoot for, and a DIP discount on a limited amount of land. Spain certainly didn't play nice with Portuguese land throughout the period and did attempt to bring it in, so you can make a case for it as long as it's prevented from ruining diplo like mission claims.
Well, Castile tried to bring in Portugal more then a hundred years before the Iberian Wedding. It's not like they integrated Aragon and Navarra, changed name to Spain, so now they had a claim to portuguese land.
I agree with cultural justified claims, and with religion justified claims. But justifying a claim with the name of a nation?
It's a fabricated claim anyway, but one you could make any time you feel like? I'm not too partial to it, but not too opposed either. Claims are of limited value these days. If you want to go with culture group only or something I'd say that's reasonable.
