Forming Germany

[yqt1001]

After a really fun game forming Italy and then playing as a global superpower Italy, I have a new found eagerness to form Germany. With that I decided I was going to form Germany next.

Something like this is a bit out of my experience level, so I have a few questions.

1 - What is the easiest country to form Germany? I was thinking about doing it as Bavaria, but Austria and Bohemia would be too much of a threat. Brandenburg works also, but then you are even weaker against Bohemia and you don't get a few good missions like Bavaria does.
2 - Is it worth being the holy roman emperor for most of the game? I plan on destroying the HRE, but I would think that being emperor while I try to form Germany would be beneficial, right?
3 - Is there any benefit of taking the Prussia route on the road to Germany? If I do try to form Germany as Prussia, does that mean that the Teutonic Order also can form Germany?
4 - What is the best method for intra-HRE expansion?

Thanks in advance.

 

[EU3NOOB]

The is a really good AAR on forming Germany as the TO. I'll post it later.

 

[Kaazmodan]

Yes, Prussia can form Germany, and they are pretty good at it. However, the biggest point of forming Germany through Prussia, is their Military Reforms, which gives discipline bonuses, so if you do it through them, you should not do it before land tech 30, where you can enact the reforms.

I have personally never formed Germany through any other country than Prussia (either Brandenburg or TO), but no countries are that easy in that matter. TO have a strong Poland and Lithuania commonly tag-teaming them, Brandenburg is generally weak. Bavaria as you mention is basically bordered by Austria and Bohemia. The last obvious choice is the Hansa, as they are rich, and not surrounded by immediate superpowers. Denmark can be quite strong in the hands of a player, but the AI is generally quite weak handling it, Pomerania is there for the taking, and there is not far to Richland aka The Netherlands. If you are agressive, I guess Bavaria could work, but I think that a more cautious player will have more luck with the Hansa.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

The main trouble is not necessarily surviving, but also to gain the missions/cores. Personally, I don't think forming Germany is worth it. Just try form HRE instead since it's stronger and easier to form.

 

[Kaazmodan]

The main trouble is not necessarily surviving, but also to gain the missions/cores. Personally, I don't think forming Germany is worth it. Just try form HRE instead since it's stronger and easier to form.

Yes, but forming the HRE is way too easy in many aspects, that is is not really that fun. And even then, forming Germany doesn't really give me a historical boost, like forming GB or Italy for that matter, or even Scandinavia, as that actually came atleast close enough within possible reach. Forming Germany actually makes for a proper game, although, you have pretty much won, when you form it...

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Yes, but forming the HRE is way too easy in many aspects, that is is not really that fun. And even then, forming Germany doesn't really give me a historical boost, like forming GB or Italy for that matter, or even Scandinavia, as that actually came atleast close enough within possible reach. Forming Germany actually makes for a proper game, although, you have pretty much won, when you form it...

You are right - That's basically the same thing as I've said in another thread.

 

[Saphe]

Brandenburg is the easiest in my opinion. Just keep a good relation with Poland and Bohemia, and pray that England or any other big guy won't guarantee/ally those you have a mission on.

Cores won't be a problem since all of your provinces will be gained through conquest missions. And if you can, vassalize every HRE voter.

Eventually though you will have to deal with Bohemia.

 

[Memento Mori]

In my current game, AI (!) Meklemburg basically conquered enough provinces to form Germany, it's just wating to core them. And we were never allies, even smacked their armies a bit a couple of times. Well, of course I did stop all threats from Western Europe and I'm playing IN, but still... if the AI can do it, the player could, while sleeping.

 

[Blaaat]

Any kingdom in Germany can easily form Germany thanks to Personal Unions and inheriting the cores which is the safest way to form Germany the only two problems with this tactic is that one country you need to annex is a Theocracy and it will take a while.

 

[unmerged(441506)]

Something like this is a bit out of my experience level

Forming Germany really isn't that much harder than forming Italy. I'm pretty sure you'll be fine.

1 - What is the easiest country to form Germany? I was thinking about doing it as Bavaria, but Austria and Bohemia would be too much of a threat. Brandenburg works also, but then you are even weaker against Bohemia and you don't get a few good missions like Bavaria does.

I formed Germany as Pommerania. Once you get a few provinces and vassals, it's really not that hard to form it regardless of which country you start with. So just pick the one you like the most or do as I did and pick the one with the nicest color

2 - Is it worth being the holy roman emperor for most of the game? I plan on destroying the HRE, but I would think that being emperor while I try to form Germany would be beneficial, right?

Yes, definitely. You can't get Formal Requests so you can just conquer whatever you want and the increased manpower and force limits make the process a lot easier.

3 - Is there any benefit of taking the Prussia route on the road to Germany? If I do try to form Germany as Prussia, does that mean that the Teutonic Order also can form Germany?

Yes, you get higher discipline if you enact the military reforms. Seriously, though, you're Germany: the higher discipline is hardly necessary.

4 - What is the best method for intra-HRE expansion?

Being the Emperor yourself. There'll no longer be an Emperor to protect your victims or send you Formal Requests if you take land you're not supposed to have.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Brandenburg is the easiest in my opinion. Just keep a good relation with Poland and Bohemia, and pray that England or any other big guy won't guarantee/ally those you have a mission on.

Cores won't be a problem since all of your provinces will be gained through conquest missions. And if you can, vassalize every HRE voter.

Eventually though you will have to deal with Bohemia.

Are those conquest missions specific to Brandenburg? I've never had any when I played as Mecklenburg

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, no, but it is likely that you get conquest mission on bordering provinces AFTER you do all country specific missions.

 

[Demostravius]

I personally formed Germany as the Hansa.
First leave the HRE, each time you take a province make it leave the empire so they cannot claim unlawful territory. People leaving the trade league gave me Casus Beli, I fully annexed all of Brandenburg, and then each other province in turn. I had them all cored by 1483, however I also had 40+ infamy. So blew all my magistrates on cultural tradition and had a 5 star diplomat running constantly, often triggering the event to lose 6 infamy.

After that I formed Germany, created a huge army and declared war on 5 nations at once, and blitzed across europe finally taking all the cores by about 1521.

This was on easy mode though.

 

[yqt1001]

Thanks guys. The only reason why I've wanted to play as Bavaria is because I've seen AI Bavaria become a superpower and even rival my own greatness, so it seemed relatively easy to crush Austria and Bohemia as Bavaria, and I still think it is as I am a warmonger when I play (though I'll need to keep infamy down to become emperor ). Although I like the idea of forming Germany as the Hansa, never thought about them.

Anyways I have another question about PU's as I'll need a lot of them to expand within the HRE. What is the best way to get them? I've always used the obscure documents spy action to get them, but there has to be another easier way to get them.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, easier - yes, you can claim the throne, but to do this you need to have royal mariage with them, so i think obscure documents are the better way...

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Also, i think, that bavaria is in better position for faster GERMANY formation, than brandenburg, as it don't start in PU, and quickly get a mission to conquer franken, and then might be able to conquer further into. But i might be wrong.

 

[Nostalgium]

Brandenburg starts virtually in the middle of several of the cities you need to form Germany, and can form Prussia for a nice boost around the Baltics, which is handy when you eventually stand up to the Emperor. Except for the afforementioned Franken-thing, I don't see any great advantage in starting as Bavaria. Personally, though, I also find the Palatinate to be an interesting starting point for forming Germany. I'd suggest just going with a country you like the name/looks of, or think will be fun to play as.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, consider that :
Bavaria is more wealthy than brandenburg.
Bavaria got no idiotic mission to conquer pommeriana that give you permanent +0,75 infamy yearly with obvious assumption, that unless for 50 years you will be in constant war, or you will become emperor, you will get formal request, which if you refuse it will bring you even more infamy (up to 1,5 infamy), so until gov tech 6, you will have damn problem with keeping infamy down... From 6 star diplomat + Embassy + support florentine school, you gain -0.8 yearly infamy reduction, so unless you will have 7 dip ruler. you just won't be able to keep infamy down unless you will be in constant war, or you will cede at least one of the provinces to pommeriana. Also even if you do, have such good king and 6 gov tech, you will get 3 stabhits + high revolt risk and emperor will have CB on you.
Also, as bavaria you are highly likely to get Imperial crown, if you bribe the electors. As brandendburg you start in PU with luxembourg, which prevents you, from any actions until you break free/Burgundy eat them.

 

[squid881]

I'd probably go with Bavaria. I've never actually bothered to do a serious Bavaria campaign, but if I had the time that's what I'd do if I wanted to form Germany. My problem with Brandenburg is that the missions don't actually tend to give cores. So I have to wait 50 years getting infamy for conquering Pommerania. Oh and I can't just take the one province I'll get a core on, no, because that's the capital . And then I can't release a two-province Pommerania as a vassal because they still have a core on a province I want to keep. The missions are just plain terrible. At least Burgundian and Bavarian missions give cores. Not that forming Germany as Burgundy is really much of an option. Or is it at all? That's beside the point.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well it is if you culture shift to culture that may form germany. Otherwise not.

Also what is good about forming germany is that it gives +1 tax to ALL provinces in german region, regardless of are they your own, or not. And ofc you got MANY cores, which makes you not needing to face emperor until you take all german provinces.