Notably, Wiz has pointed out that forming Germany will be harder in 1.12. (Also, as it stands getting all the provinces required to form Germany without getting any others looks a bit hairy by my reckoning.)
Forming Germany should delete the HRE
- Thread starter arctus
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You have problems grasping simple analogies.
If someone else other than the Emperor is KIng of Germany he is the superior of the Emperor if for example he is the Archduke of Austria because Austria is a component of the Kingdom of Germany.
Yet again, there was no historical drive for making the kingdom of Germany a reality, it become a reality after the HRE disintegrated because HRE equalled Germany at that time.
Don`t try to hide behind mistakes made by Paradox.
They are partially repairing their mistake by making Germany exist the HRE but for all intents and purposes the King of Germany has the stronger claim because the bedrock of the HRE is Germany and if the Emperor is Austrian as is with the majority of games than the Emperor is a de jure vassal of the King of Germany because Austria is a component of Germany.
That translates in a free CB and cores an all Austrian and indeed almost all land inhabited by Germans.
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Elaborate with argument.
What if king of Bohemia is emperor?
King of Italy?
Also, as I already pointed out in a number of historical cases, the king/emperor was not in fact the strongest land lord in empire/kingdom, yet they were ranked higher.
Also nothing in game prevents you from stopming HRE emperor into ground as many times as you desire as member of HRE, but HRE doesn`t collapse, nor you get out, which, is how it should be, as long as you don`t actually work on destroying empire.
How, if HRE equalled Germany "at the time", doesn`t that by itself mean that HRE was something more than just Germany, at one time?
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Who cares if the Emperor is Bohemia, Italy or Burgundy.Elaborate with argument.
What if king of Bohemia is emperor?
King of Italy?
Also, as I already pointed out in a number of historical cases, the king/emperor was not in fact the strongest land lord in empire/kingdom, yet they were ranked higher.
Also nothing in game prevents you from stopming HRE emperor into ground as many times as you desire as member of HRE, but HRE doesn`t collapse, nor you get out, which, is how it should be, as long as you don`t actually work on destroying empire.
How, if HRE equalled Germany "at the time", doesn`t that by itself mean that HRE was something more than just Germany, at one time?
If someone else rather then the Emperor has the title King of Germany that means that he already has the vast majority of land in the kingdom of Germany, for all intents and purposes he is far more powerful than the Emperor and he would not bow before a weakling, the HRE is dissolved.
Don`t try to sound smart when it comes to HRE or Kingdom of Germany heraldry, Kingdom of Germany has like 75% of the HRE lands, so yes, I dare say HRE equals Germany.
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You don't just switch your flags - you claim to usurp the emperor's rule over the german people. It is a big deal.
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Wikipedia says the usage of the title varied considerably over the life of the Empire. There is no reason why it shouldn't change in the game.
If the Emperor can't form Germany, and the electors have a habit of electing large HRE kingdoms, then there had better be a way of declining to be emperor. While I realise that someone who has the ability to create Germany has probably pissed of a lot of HRE members and is therefore unlikely to be elected, stranger things can (and have) happen in eu4-world. If the only thing that stopped me forming Germany was that those Pita electors kept forcing me to be emperor I would be seriously pissed.
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Voltaire: "Holy Roman Empire is neither holy, roman or an Empire!"
My POV is that it was a title and a title doesn´t gives power per se. If a country was too powerful to become Germany AND wanted to GTFO from the Empire, it should be able to, and HREmperor should get a CB on him.
Also, the smaller HRE is in provinces, the less power it should have. A 5 province HRE should give pathetic bonuses.
My POV is that it was a title and a title doesn´t gives power per se. If a country was too powerful to become Germany AND wanted to GTFO from the Empire, it should be able to, and HREmperor should get a CB on him.
Also, the smaller HRE is in provinces, the less power it should have. A 5 province HRE should give pathetic bonuses.
Imperial Integrity bonuses require a minimum amount of Princes and several of the Emperor's bonuses are tied directly to how many Princes there are. Anyway, Imperial Integrity at least is getting completely reworked in the patch.
Also Sardina-Piemonte must get out of HRE and if Bohemia lose its electoral status, it will get out of HRE?
Agree, the point was more that its power should be more related to province number than number of tags.
Therefore if a big Germany GTFOs from the Empire, it would look as ridiculous as the last emperors of the Western Roman Empire.
I can´t see a big Germany not wanting THE title eventually however.
Read again, the Holy Roman Emperors were Kings of Germany.
Titles meant a lot to people, in 1848 Romanians from Transylvania and Croatians from Croatia fought against the Hungarian revolution and for the Habsburg Emperor because they recognised his authority, they didn`t fight for Hungary or for getting independence they fought for the Emperor because they knew they were subjects to the Habsburg Empire.
That is 19th century Europe if you think that the earlier people didn`t care about heraldry you are mistaken.
I`ll just name myself king of Germany over those 10 random provinces Paradox chose, no bigge Emperor dude ? Key ? That is not going to work, the title of King of Germany was the bedrock of the Holy Roman Empire.With time the Emperor had only 2 king titles, that of Germany and that of Bohemia, part of HRE heraldry, even if he lost the crown of Bohemia we could call himself Emperor given the size of the German lands but if he lost the title of King of Germany they it`s over for the empire as an entity.
Given the changes in Common Sense Germany might have an Emperor level rank from day one if it has enough lands.
Everyone in the German region would dog pile the one that declares himself King of Germany, for all intents and purposes that person has a bigger claim to their lands then they do as dukes or princes.
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Sorry if this has been asked and answered earlier, but can Holy Roman Emperor, who is not elector (for example Austria) upgrade from duke to king or from king to "normal" emperor? Not by forming a new nation, but by using the standard upgrade government level -feature?
EDIT: And if not, is that restriction moddable?
EDIT: And if not, is that restriction moddable?
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I Hope for a change of italian NI too (+25% Imperial autority)
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going to war with the emperor and winning is completely different from just usurping one of his titles and expecting there wont be any consequences, at the very least creating germany should start a war with the emperor
The tag germany should only be created if the HRE no longer exists or outside the HRE, that's what it is for. That it can currently be created inside the HRE is a flaw in the game and not a good argument for keeping it this way
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It seems the more I read about Common Sense the less I want to update.
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Kingdom of prussia and kingdom of sardinia-piedmont were kingdoms and were inside HRE...