I wonder if Italian ideas will be changed accordingly. +25% IA is pretty useless even in 1.11.
- 3
Forming Germany should delete the HRE
- Thread starter arctus
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
What about when forming/declaring Kingdom of Germany it automatically puts you at war with the HRE. If you lose, both stay but your excluded from HRE. If you win, the HRE dissolves.
Why not: you win, you become emperor?
If you want to dismantle HRE, there is already a way to do it, which, requires war with HRE.
The Emperor also ruled it`s own country, that is the part of the HRE they consolidated not creating Germany.
I repeat again, the Emperor is already king of Germany, maybe you mean the Emperor proclaim the Kingdom of Germany inside the HRE.
You should take a look, the German area inside the HRE is at least 75 % of HRE if not more.
Historically the Emperor didn`t try to form the Kingdom of Germany, all the extra land he gained was added to his country, Austria in the majority of times, and he tried to centralise the HRE by laws.
Arguments must have at least a grain of historical accuracy behind them.Why didn`t the Habsburgs try to "create Germany" so that it would easier for them to centralise HRE ? Because HRE WAS (Greater) Germany for them.
Your commonwealth idea has no merit, for example if it wasn`t for Brandenburg who got too powerful so that it can challenge Austria, the Habsburgs could have very well centralised the HRE.
That was the game played inside the HRE, get big and keep your inside competitors weaker not make some of them bigger and create a commonwealth.
Besides, how would this decision of yours look ? Will this Emperor formed Germany still get cores on the German region ? Will he still have access to the normal laws ?
I still struggle to find any reference to a German unification when HRE existed, maybe that is because the Germans saw HRE as their country ?
- 1
But can he form Italy?
Because Italian NIs have the best +IA bonus in the game, and I really want to see it being used in 1.12. And if the emperor can't form it, that would mean that one idea would be completely wasted.
Or you'd be praying for RNG that you would get a PU over the elector and then praying for RNG to see it being inherited, since it looks like nothing would ever force the AI emperor to give you that title by himself. Even if you are his buddy for like 200 years and there are literally no one else to give it to, the AI emperor would rather have the slot open and lose IA because of it.
"Grain of Historical accuracy" is already present, kingdom of Germany existed, and it can be revisited, if circumstances are right.
Germany was a kingdom, HRE was an empire. Emperor never in the game`s time frame directly owned most of what is kingdom of "Germany". If naything, formally vieving the conquest as "recoveing" the kingdom is an obvoius possibility.
HRE had other kingdoms in it, Bohemia is obvious example.
The game allows to set up HRE as you want. The game allows to recover Italian lands, and if I so desite, entire land of Poland and al(most)l Russian minors will be part of HRE.
There is no argument to preventing kingdom of Germany to be part of HRE. Unless we are talking about 1870 German Empire, but that has zero "historical accuracy" in a game that ends in 1830s. Bringing in "smaller" Germany and "larger Germany = HRE", is outside of game`s timeframe, and rightfully belongs to Victoria.
- 3
the point is, hre is in fact germany, kind of a greater germany. so it makes no sense when the two constructs exist at the same time.
- 2
the point is, duchy of "X" is in fact barony of "X", kinda "greater" barony of X. so it makes no sence that both exist at the same time. The kingdom of "X", is in fact a duchy of "X", only greater, so it makes no sence that both exist at the same time. The Empire of Germany, is aready Germany, so it makes no sence for German kingdom to exist at the same time.
Considering feudalic titles in fact existed, you can probably spot a flaw in the logic.
After all, isn`t "common sence" supposed to bring us exactly that, with ranks?
It's more than just a flag change (like Hannover is), because it also gives you claims on the entire German region. You are declaring that none of the German Princes have any rights, privileges, or sovereignty anymore. This is ignoring the HRE = Germany+ issue.
- 5
- 1
kingdom x and y is a little bit too abstract to discuss it. its kind of the same thing you cannot have england and gb at the same time because that would make no sense
All the German princes are already dead or integrates. I`m Hanza, that owns the entire German region. But, I can`t call myself Hannover, Prussia or Germany, because it will push me out of HRE, for some reason.
That makes no sence. Either the HRE should just die if it has too few members, or there must be some kind of war, after which, the fate of Empire is decided. Simply pushing people out, ignoring their relations with emperor, the size of the empire, the strength of the emperor and such, makes no sence.
Yes, you can, nothing prevents that, aside from province ownership. You can double check the event if you don`t believe.
If England exists in France, or America, or anywhere else, doesn`t metter.
Ah, you raise a good point. When the 75% of the Empire is ruled by a sole monarch who is not the Emperor, it would make sense for the Empire to be dissolved or a Japan style annex-Daimyo/war for the Emperor CB. Maybe you could even force vassalize the Emperor and declare yourself hereditary Governor-General of and King in Germany.
- 2
The Teutonic Kingdom aka Kingdom of Germany become HRE, for all intents and purposes HRE is a Greater Germany of sorts and it was seen as such.
Spin it as you like but HRE was Germany and Germany was HRE for Germans.
Bohemia and Burgundy are small kingdoms compared to the behemoth that is called Germany.
The Second Reich is different from a hypothetical Germany we are talking about.
I underline again, I haven`t seen any drive for bringing the KIngdom of Germany into existence when the HRE existed, it was oppose the centralisation or fight for it.
In game terms it creates more chaos, forming Germany gives cores on the entire German region, that is unfair like hell if you are the Emperor.
- 3
Thats the hole point, germany was hre and hre was germany for germans
- 3
- 2
Germany is still smaller than France.
"HRE was Germany" is nonsence. Germany and HRE are administrative units. The fact that HRE was seen as a state with German culture is alredy represented.
There were dosens other administrative units inside HRE, that were not called Germany, and yet, the existance of HRE didn`t prevent their existance.
Forming Germany doesn`t give you any cores, you must be playing mods.
Ok, then why not simply come up with 2 kindoms for north Germany, kingdom of Pomerania and i don`t know, Westphalia. Does it changes a thing?
- 1
Well, we can expand and say that it was like that for all the people who had a bit of knowledge about HRE at that time.
Last edited:
if thats the case, the option to form germany when you have the required provinces for that should be deleted at all maybe. well, if i was german at that time and heard someone founded a kingdom of germany while hre still exists, well thats just nonsense.
Don't know about Hannover, but isn't one of the big points of forming Prussia (in real life) that it makes you a king(in Prussia)? And Brandenburg's an Elector so no problem there.
- 1
prussia had kind of a deal with the emperor, because the emperor needed military help, he gave brandenburg/prussia the kinddom title in exchange. but this things cannot be portrait in game because it was a special case
- 1