The Italian states were already mostly lost by the time EU4 vanilla starts. I suspect that northern Italy is in the HRE from gameplay considerations - otherwise the BBB would eat them within no time.
Forming Germany should delete the HRE
- Thread starter arctus
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Funny, I think it's boring the other way around. There's no sense of accomplishment when you form Germany as soon as you meet the requirements, it's just a tag change and claims to make you blob faster. Having to build up power and dismantle the Empire first is a lot more interesting of a challenge.
Forming Germany will pull you out of HRE in 1.12 (and make you Empire rank if you have CS). It's also much harder.
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What is CS? Can Austria join as AI to Germany or form Germany if it's not emperor/Empire dismantled?
I'm also curious about other decision, like the one of the papacy, but in particoular the one of Sardinia Piedmont that should do more or less the same, giving you King rank, also what about Prussia? If everyone in the HRE is a duchy, If Brandeburg form Prussia, will be a King or not?
Most nation forming decisions (Italy included) will pull you out of the HRE unless you're an Elector, as they bump you up to King rank.
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What if you are Emperor and form Germany? Do you also get kicked out? Probably though as you can't be dual Emperor I assume, it is contradicting.
Yes, the game certainly needs more arbitrary BS rules. In the next patch, forming Prussia as non-Brandenburg will throw you out of HRE, because "logic".
Kings can`t be vassals of emperor, even if HRE is much larger than historical, because, again, "logic".
And, ofcourse, everybody knows that if you grow powerfull within a realm, you will not try to take the reigns for yourself, you would try to destroy it, or leave it. Because, once again, "logic".
If there is a need for any kind of arbitrary rule, that could be that if a nation grows big enough to challenge the emperor, something like 100% of FL and income of emperor, there should be a civil war, members will pick sides, and the winner get`s the crown, while the loser is cut down.
Kings can`t be vassals of emperor, even if HRE is much larger than historical, because, again, "logic".
And, ofcourse, everybody knows that if you grow powerfull within a realm, you will not try to take the reigns for yourself, you would try to destroy it, or leave it. Because, once again, "logic".
If there is a need for any kind of arbitrary rule, that could be that if a nation grows big enough to challenge the emperor, something like 100% of FL and income of emperor, there should be a civil war, members will pick sides, and the winner get`s the crown, while the loser is cut down.
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I don't understand why you are so determined to deny the viability that it can be more fluid. I am quite aware that this is an EU4 forum, I can read, I know where I am, you probably shouldnt be so rude or dismissive. I mentioned CK2 because it is not unlikely that someone could be playing a CK2 conversion, one where they formed the HRE as Italy, without the german city states, in this situation you have to let the option for both the tags HRE and Germany to form as something open. The idea you are so fervantly defending would entirely break immersion for a group of players which is unfair on them
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IIRC ranks are included in DLC. What will happen without CS? (out of hre as well?)
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT VANILLA EU4.
In vanilla EU4, the HRE is a german-centric construct. Alternate possibilities and whatnot do not have a thing to do with it. Starting from historical 1444 bookmark, IT IS NOT VIABLE FOR THE HRE TO SHIFT FROM GERMANY.
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Hmmm... there are King titles within the HRE, though: Bohemia, for instance.
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As I said, *unless* you're an Elector. Electors can be Kings, though Bohemia is the only monarchy in the HRE that starts at King rank.
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Sounds like the HRE is going to have a bunch of new rules we're not yet familiar with. Looking forward to hearing all of them!
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So as soon as the HRE starts being inconvenient to be in, or the higher government rank is better than being a prince at the time, then you should form Germany or Italy.