Forming Germany should delete the HRE

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MiniaAr

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Glad to hear, but now I'm afraid Italy will be nerfed in other areas with the next patch.
Why would you say such a thing? As of now, it has been confirmed that Italy gets significantly more provinces (more than 10 I think), new countries (Lucca, Montferrat but sadly no Florence) and Genoa as an end node.
How can you assume that Italy is being nerfed? :(
 
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TheDarkMaster

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I agree with you on that except it shouldn't be possible to disband the HRE that easily.
Maybe have that be just one of the options with a unique CB to form the titles against the Emperor? Say, 50 warscore to get the title, but 100 warscore lets you disband the HRE at the same time as take the title? Otherwise it could be a Germany only thing or an option that comes up if the HRE is small enough after you leave.
 

pphair

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Why would you say such a thing? As of now, it has been confirmed that Italy gets significantly more provinces (more than 10 I think), new countries (Lucca, Montferrat but sadly no Florence) and Genoa as an end node.
How can you assume that Italy is being nerfed? :(

Whoops, meant idea-wise. Actually the extra regions and changes to Genoa might even justify an idea nerf.
 

dav77-b

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With the edict of cologne which is direct at start date ( 1486) , the HRE was offical renamed into Holy roman empire of german nation. So inside Eu4 timeframe HRE=Germany. The tag Germany is needed if the HRE is desolved.
 
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Wizzington

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Glad to hear, but now I'm afraid Italy will be nerfed in other areas with the next patch.

I, too, live in constant fear of my own baseless assumptions.
 
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Golladan

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Enjoy the AE if you want to get all that land before it expires. The mass claims would be a benefit if they last longer and/or actually ignore the larger HRE AE that comes with it.
That might not be a problem. Since Wiz said that it became much harder to form, and that it gives Empire rank, then it will probably require you to have around the amount of development that that is needed to become Empire rank. So by the time you form it you'll probably already own most of the stuff it would give a claim on.
 

Wizzington

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I'm going back to lurking, my pride is safe there.

No need, but next time you're wondering if something was nerfed, just ask me about it instead. :)
 
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Rorgloin

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With the edict of cologne which is direct at start date ( 1486) , the HRE was offical renamed into Holy roman empire of german nation. So inside Eu4 timeframe HRE=Germany. The tag Germany is needed if the HRE is desolved.
That's after the start date in 1444, so the HRE does not equal Germany for the entire EUIV timeline. Furthermore, the Empire did not receive the title "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" officially until the early sixteenth century. That term had been used as early as the 1470s, but it was not official until the Diet of Cologne in 1512. Even after adopting that title, however, the Holy Roman Emperor continued to use the title through the reign of Charles V, so up through the 1550s.
I cannot currently find the primary text which made the renaming official, but I will quote it if I can find it.
You can take a look at chapter one of Germany and the Holy Roman Empire by Joachim Whaley here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...oly ROman Empire of the German Nation&f=false

It is a good, succinct summary of the absolutely labyrinthine nature of the structure of the Holy Roman Empire in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. You can see the numerous contradictions between what the Empire was supposed to be de jure with Maximilian I's aspirations to reclaim "rightful" power in Italy and Burgundy with what it was de facto, seen for instance in the fact that the Holy Roman Emperor had not been actually crowned King of Burgundy since the fourteenth century. It also cites 1512 as the year in which the German Nation suffix was officially adopted.

Ultimately, the Holy Roman Empire became, de facto, a very loose, weak German "state", but you have to be careful not to look at its history teleologically, assuming that the ultimate historical fate of the Empire was a predestined outcome which could not have been avoided. Had things gone differently, the Holy Roman Emperors might have made their rule in Italy and Burgundy a reality once again in the modern period.
 

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That's after the start date in 1444, so the HRE does not equal Germany for the entire EUIV timeline. Furthermore, the Empire did not receive the title "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" officially until the early sixteenth century. That term had been used as early as the 1470s, but it was not official until the Diet of Cologne in 1512. Even after adopting that title, however, the Holy Roman Emperor continued to use the title through the reign of Charles V, so up through the 1550s.
I cannot currently find the primary text which made the renaming official, but I will quote it if I can find it.
You can take a look at chapter one of Germany and the Holy Roman Empire by Joachim Whaley here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=QXdPzWXCphkC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=Diet of Cologne Holy ROman Empire of the German Nation&source=bl&ots=NM30zeHM4x&sig=ORCRJWxgvac_Lbwge6G1NSM2F48&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZJpoVbOVKIntsAXAmIIo&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Diet of Cologne Holy ROman Empire of the German Nation&f=false

It is a good, succinct summary of the absolutely labyrinthine nature of the structure of the Holy Roman Empire in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. You can see the numerous contradictions between what the Empire was supposed to be de jure with Maximilian I's aspirations to reclaim "rightful" power in Italy and Burgundy with what it was de facto, seen for instance in the fact that the Holy Roman Emperor had not been actually crowned King of Burgundy since the fourteenth century. It also cites 1512 as the year in which the German Nation suffix was officially adopted.

Ultimately, the Holy Roman Empire became, de facto, a very loose, weak German "state", but you have to be careful not to look at its history teleologically, assuming that the ultimate historical fate of the Empire was a predestined outcome which could not have been avoided. Had things gone differently, the Holy Roman Emperors might have made their rule in Italy and Burgundy a reality once again in the modern period.
And there is one constant that is common to both scenarios - the german region remains the heartland of the empire. Even were the HRE to regain it's influence in Burgundy (btw, I'm assuming you mean the old kingdom of the Burgundians region, right?) and Italy, it's center would remain in germany.
 

Rorgloin

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And there is one constant that is common to both scenarios - the german region remains the heartland of the empire. Even were the HRE to regain it's influence in Burgundy (btw, I'm assuming you mean the old kingdom of the Burgundians region, right?) and Italy, it's center would remain in germany.

Yes, I am referring to the Kingdom of Burgundy, rather than the Duchy or County. While the center would remain in Germany, that does not make it equivalent to the Kingdom of Germany any more than the Roman Empire in antiquity was equivalent to Italy because it was centered there (at least in the first and second centuries). The point being that the Kingdom of Germany was considered one of the component parts of the Empire. The Empire held on to areas outside the traditional Kingdom of Germany for at least the first century of EUIV. In a game which spans only four centuries, that is a significant span of time. And it is also possible that the heartland of the Empire could have moved outside of the Kingdom of Germany-- it might have become centered upon Bohemia, for instance, had the Bohemian Kings become consistently elected Emperor rather than the Habsburgs. .
 

ragingrondo12

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No need, but next time you're wondering if something was nerfed, just ask me about it instead. :)


So was it Nerfed, Wiz, was it?

:p
 

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On the subject of Germany does it give cultural union for the entire german group or is it just the actual germans? Does it give union statues to the dutch and flemish cultures as well?
I for some reason thought it didnt.