Forming Germany should delete the HRE

[arctus]

seeing a formed germany besides the still existing hre feels a little bit weird, because its basically the same. well, maybe not deleting the hre when germany is formed because that would be too easy, but i mean the two constructs existing at the same time just feels wrong. maybe there can be found another solution for this

 

[Duke of Britain]

You are correct in that it is weird, seeing as the Kingdom of Germany was one of the constituent Kingdoms of the HRE, so what would make sense is that you need the HRE to be disbanded in order to form Germany.

 

[Sunspawn]

Forming Germany should kick you out of the HRE imo. And so should it be the case with Italy.

 

[arctus]

the hre had mostly german kings and all the electors (kurfürsten) where form germany, so germany was, you can say, the core element of the hre. so it just feels wrong when there is a nation of germany and the holy roman empire at the same time. because the hre cannot exists without its core element

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Agreed with Sunspawn. Everytime I was RPing and formed either Italy or Germany without being Emperor I left the HRE.

 

[TheGrouch91]

Forming Germany should kick you out of the HRE imo. And so should it be the case with Italy.

And change Italys only meh idea the IA while you're at it.

 

[MaxStrategis]

How about not being able to forrm Germany untill HRE is disbanded?

 

[Destinyfaker]

seeing a formed germany besides the still existing hre feels a little bit weird, because its basically the same. well, maybe not deleting the hre when germany is formed because that would be too easy, but i mean the two constructs existing at the same time just feels wrong. maybe there can be found another solution for this

the HRE still existed until the first worldwar afaik even if austria was the last member. ^^

 

[arctus]

the HRE still existed until the first worldwar afaik even if austria was the last member. ^^

in my knowledge it was dissolved in 1806 after the battle of austerlitz

 

[Homecastle]

How about not being able to forrm Germany untill HRE is disbanded?

I really like this idea, it would make forming germany more entertaining. I think the same thing should be the case with italy.

 

[Kagemin]

the HRE still existed until the first worldwar afaik even if austria was the last member. ^^

Nope, Napoleon forced the disbanding already.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

in my knowledge it was dissolved in 1806 after the battle of austerlitz

Yes, that is true. Some realms still used formal titles from HRE times, like Hannover calling themselves "Prince-Elector" for a few years before becoming the Kingdom of Hannover, but they mostly abandoned it after a few years, and I don't thing any of them got to WWI with the old titles in place.

 

[arctus]

I really like this idea, it would make forming germany more entertaining. I think the same thing should be the case with italy.

i like the idea too, but i think italy is a special case, since its not the core element of the empire. instead when formed italy should be banished from the empire and all its provinces should leave the empire too

 

[Nassau]

A nation of United German should be able to exist next to or under the HRE.

 

[Noxatrox]

i like the idea too, but i think italy is a special case, since its not the core element of the empire. instead when formed italy should be banished from the empire and all its provinces should leave the empire too

One of Italy's national ideas is to give more imperial authority, so that would become pretty useless. Maybe if they changed that national idea.

 

[Loaf Warden]

I can't agree with this proposal. In my recent Hesse game, I consolidated most of the German states under my rule and formed Germany, but by then Savoy was the emperor. I did end up disbanding the empire because I wanted to, but by then Kiev (of all things!) was the emperor. Historically, the HRE became German-focused early on and never moved away from that, but there's no inherent reason why the political center of the Empire couldn't have shifted away from Germany if the Habsburgs lost control. So I didn't see any real contradiction in ruling a Kingdom of Germany from within an Empire that was now ruled from elsewhere anyway. My consolidating my own control over the Germans should not have automatically disbanded the Empire, nor should the existence of the Empire have made it impossible for me to declare myself the de jure King of Germany (instead of just King of a massively-expanded Hesse that ruled over nearly all the Germans, which I already was de facto anyway).

 

[Qemarar]

Why? Just because the HRE was made up of a lot of German states didn't make it an equal to Germany. The HRE represents a conglomeration of autonomous states all giving their indirect allegiance to a higher authority. Germany represents a large group of regions with almost no autonomy all existing under the direct leadership of a king. Germany should be able to exist inside of the HRE. The kingdom of Bohemia is part of the HRE, why couldn't a kingdom of Germany?

 

[Sunspawn]

Why? Just because the HRE was made up of a lot of German states didn't make it an equal to Germany. The HRE represents a conglomeration of autonomous states all giving their indirect allegiance to a higher authority. Germany represents a large group of regions with no authority all existing under the direct leadership of a king. Germany should be able to exist inside of the HRE. The kingdom of Bohemia is part of the HRE, why couldn't a kingdom of Germany?

Except the emperor was King of Germany - it was one of the titles that made the empire what it was, along with King of Italy. It was part of the identity of the Empire.

 

[Frederick III]

Except the emperor was King of Germany - it was one of the titles that made the empire what it was, along with King of Italy. It was part of the identity of the Empire.

With this in mind, I think a better solution would be to have the Emperor take an Imperial Authority penalty if Germany or Italy exist (assuming they're not the Emperor).

 

[Duke of Britain]

With this in mind, I think a better solution would be to have the Emperor take an Imperial Authority penalty if Germany or Italy exist (assuming they're not the Emperor).

That would make sense, seeing as anyone claiming to be the King of Italy or Germany would be effectively trying to usurp the Emperor of one of his titles. Still, it would be nice to also have events and decisions related to it, and it should be necessary to defeat the Emperor in order to form those countries.