Forming a cultural union outside of your primary culture group?

[MiniaAr]

Hello there,

Because I'm more than hype, I decided to form Persia with Shirvan instead of with Tabarestan like everyone else. (I'm kidding, they have a better colour and better ideas, enough reasons for me). Shirvan is Azerbaijani thus it can form Persia (allowed for countries of this culture and from the Persian group), but I seem to recall that there was an issue that forming Persia won't actually make you the cultural union: cultures would be "green" but you'd still have the unaccepted cultures penalties.
Is this solved for cultural unions in general? Or the line "Primary culture is changed to Persian" in the decision would ensure I'd be the proper cultural union?
I'm small enough and have humanism so with the switch I'm fairly certain I'll get Azerbaijani accepted, but I want to make sure I don't have to culture switch to Persian before forming Persia, because it would be quite costly .

This question works also for QQ/AQ forming Persia (both Azerbaijani as well). Thank you for helping all the Persian wannabies out there.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

I tried it, and yes, you do become the cultural union and all culture penalties are gone within the Iranian culture group.

I don't really know any other examples where you can form a country from outside the culture group, but where you actually keep your culture, so I don't know if it's solved in general. Apparently Basque is in the Iberian group now. The closest thing I could find was forming the HRE, which already did work at least a couple patches ago, and still does, but that doesn't say much.

 

[unmerged(652342)]

I don't really know any other examples where you can form a country from outside the culture group, but where you actually keep your culture, so I don't know if it's solved in general. Apparently Basque is in the Iberian group now. The closest thing I could find was forming the HRE, which already did work at least a couple patches ago, and still does, but that doesn't say much.

- Hindustan. It can be formed by any "indian culture", but it is culture union of hindustani group only, so if you form it by non-hindustani country it wont give any culture union bonuses.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

- Hindustan. It can be formed by any "indian culture", but it is culture union of hindustani group only, so if you form it by non-hindustani country it wont give any culture union bonuses.

Well, it turns out that one works as well now, not sure if that's new in this patch. After forming Hindustan as Bengal (in the Eastern Aryan group), Hindusthani cultures have no penalties.

You do take penalties on other Eastern Aryan cultures though, though the culture tooltip claims that those are supposed to be following the cultural union rules rather than the Hindusthani cultures.

 

[MrSamLamb]

It's quite ugly that Azerbaijani isn't in the iranian culture group, i mean it's called culture group, not language group.
You don't have to culture switch to persian before forming Persia, it'll do it by itself when u hit that button, and i think that Azerbaijani will be accepted for a while, but as you get larger it won't

 

[ahyangyi]

I don't really know any other examples where you can form a country from outside the culture group, but where you actually keep your culture, so I don't know if it's solved in general. Apparently Basque is in the Iberian group now. The closest thing I could find was forming the HRE, which already did work at least a couple patches ago, and still does, but that doesn't say much.

Brittany and Navarre can form France.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Brittany and Navarre can form France.

Navarra can form Spain, not France. But Brittany is a good point.

It turns out it works there as well, all french cultures have no penalties after forming France as Brittany, so it seems to always be functioning properly. As with Hindustan though, the cultures tooltip is confused and thinks you're a cultural union for Breton cultures instead of French cultures.

I'll make a bug report on that, though it is somewhat insignificant

 

[balmung60]

Navarra can form Spain, not France. But Brittany is a good point.

It turns out it works there as well, all french cultures have no penalties after forming France as Brittany, so it seems to always be functioning properly. As with Hindustan though, the cultures tooltip is confused and thinks you're a cultural union for Breton cultures instead of French cultures.

I'll make a bug report on that, though it is somewhat insignificant

Navarra can form both, actually.

 

[DevastatingTech]

It's quite ugly that Azerbaijani isn't in the iranian culture group, i mean it's called culture group, not language group.
You don't have to culture switch to persian before forming Persia, it'll do it by itself when u hit that button, and i think that Azerbaijani will be accepted for a while, but as you get larger it won't

What's the problem of this guy?

 

[ahyangyi]

Navarra can form Spain, not France. But Brittany is a good point.

Navarra forming Spain won't serve as an example since Basque is now in Iberian group.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Navarra can form both, actually.

If you can get the "form France" decision to show up as Navarra, please tell me how. I don't think it's possible right now, but that does appear to be a bug, probably caused by the fact that it says "culture = basque" in the decision rather then "primary_culture = basque" as it does for Breton. (edit: yup, that turned out to be true)

Navarra forming Spain won't serve as an example since Basque is now in Iberian group.

I know, that's why I wasn't interested in them forming Spain

 

[G_Morgan]

If you can get the "form France" decision to show up as Navarra, please tell me how. I don't think it's possible right now, but that does appear to be a bug, probably caused by the fact that it says "culture = basque" in the decision rather then "primary_culture = basque" as it does for Breton. (edit: yup, that turned out to be true)


I know, that's why I wasn't interested in them forming Spain

http://www.eu4wiki.com/France#Form_French_Nation

Look at the requirements. French culture group, Basque and Breton cultures can all form France. It isn't Navarra itself that can form France. It is the culture that goes with Navarra.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

http://www.eu4wiki.com/France#Form_French_Nation

Look at the requirements. French culture group, Basque and Breton cultures can all form France. It isn't Navarra itself that can form France. It is the culture that goes with Navarra.

I know I was wrong in assuming that they weren't supposed to, but I had a very good reason to. Since it isn't actually possible in game right now, until they make the change I suggested in that post.

"culture = basque" refers to a culture group, not a specific culture, and basque isn't a culture group anymore.

 

[G_Morgan]

Ok that is a bug. It seems entirely reasonable that Basques should be able to form France given that there are actual Basques in it.

You are right though this won't be possible right now. Might be a bit OP if it were allowed. Basque France that has a cultural union on French cultures and culture group on all Iberian cultures...

 

[Xinkc]

Interestingly, from my experiences before 1.8, I've experienced trouble with cultural unions outside of one's cultural group as well. Though, that might be due to forming the HRE as a current cultural union and the fact that cultural unions don't seem to stack, but still...