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As a citizien, I ask this questions
1º you first talked about the federalism, then it simply *Buff* no more federalism I saw the creation of this party so I know why it began but a new camer don't. Or that aspect isn't so important like you sayed???
2º In the political esphere were you are inclueded?? I really don't know you seem more lelf maybe center, more that your possible allies the FR. So were is your position.
Vasco, citizien
1º you first talked about the federalism, then it simply *Buff* no more federalism I saw the creation of this party so I know why it began but a new camer don't. Or that aspect isn't so important like you sayed???
2º In the political esphere were you are inclueded?? I really don't know you seem more lelf maybe center, more that your possible allies the FR. So were is your position.
Vasco, citizien
Mr. I_Killed Kenny,
Our party is generally mildly leftist on social policies and rightist on economic policies. The platform is for low taxes, modest regulations on business, decriminalizing drug use, abolition of the death penalty. Abortion is a question for the member's conscience, but the party itself will not actively support restrictions on first trimester abortions. We believe in free trade, support homosexual unions or marriages, legal gambling and prostitution, and support allowing immigrants to become citizens after a year of public service.
Our party is generally mildly leftist on social policies and rightist on economic policies. The platform is for low taxes, modest regulations on business, decriminalizing drug use, abolition of the death penalty. Abortion is a question for the member's conscience, but the party itself will not actively support restrictions on first trimester abortions. We believe in free trade, support homosexual unions or marriages, legal gambling and prostitution, and support allowing immigrants to become citizens after a year of public service.
1) Federalism is definitely IN. It's the best way to protect our liberty
2) Our position is more center or right since we can't agree with socialist. Their Keynes based economical ideology is not compatible. Otherwise some positions can be considered leftie...
2) Our position is more center or right since we can't agree with socialist. Their Keynes based economical ideology is not compatible. Otherwise some positions can be considered leftie...
M. I_Killed-Kenny
On point 2, see M. Jetsons post. On point 1, I accidently erased what you refered to when editing my post.
On point 2, see M. Jetsons post. On point 1, I accidently erased what you refered to when editing my post.
Hello from the ERP.
I am hughbartlett, founder and temporary leader and spokesperson for our party. We find that socially, we are to your right, and economically, we are to your left, which is a rather odd position-we watch your stance on abortion welcomingly, as it is similar to ours, yet we deplore the discussion of legalising hard drugs.
Although we realise this thread is for Internal discussion, we would just like to note that the ERP is willing to offer you support in some areas in the future.
If you have any queries, please feel free to PM me, our pop into our HQ.
And could you please ignore the FR, as of yet we are not in coalition with them, and it angers us that they assume so.
I am hughbartlett, founder and temporary leader and spokesperson for our party. We find that socially, we are to your right, and economically, we are to your left, which is a rather odd position-we watch your stance on abortion welcomingly, as it is similar to ours, yet we deplore the discussion of legalising hard drugs.
Although we realise this thread is for Internal discussion, we would just like to note that the ERP is willing to offer you support in some areas in the future.
If you have any queries, please feel free to PM me, our pop into our HQ.
And could you please ignore the FR, as of yet we are not in coalition with them, and it angers us that they assume so.
Re: Libertarian Party
I am sorry, I cannot agree with most of these points...
Minimum wage? No
Homosexual Marriage? Never
European Union? NO!
Death Penalty? YES!
Citizenship? Blood heritage, not some mumbo jumbo. How can a non citizen serve in the army anyway?
I am sorry, I cannot agree with most of these points...
Minimum wage? No
Homosexual Marriage? Never
European Union? NO!
Death Penalty? YES!
Citizenship? Blood heritage, not some mumbo jumbo. How can a non citizen serve in the army anyway?
I'm willing to have those changed if M. Jetson and/or M. Apebe are willing. Vote individually on each issue.
As a citizien again,
Thats one thing that this party don't have a solid Platform, The ideas in the main thread are more Left-center and you all continue to say this is a right-cernter party
You whould make this clear if you whant more people to join ypur party.
Please don't think this was Atack, only a advice from a friend
Vasco
Thats one thing that this party don't have a solid Platform, The ideas in the main thread are more Left-center and you all continue to say this is a right-cernter party
You whould make this clear if you whant more people to join ypur party.
Please don't think this was Atack, only a advice from a friend
Vasco
Yes, but this party is only forming, it's hard to have a solid platform when we don't know each other that well. advice appreciated btw
I do not want to go in any alliances. ESPECIALLY know when all the parties are forming and the future is not clear. Let's wait one election or maybe two and then start seeking allies.
As a member of the Rally for Democracy. An ally is always a good thing, But when I say "an advice from a friend" don't think that was a "
" if I whanted to give you an "" I would put that in the end of the frase. But an other advice, Don't enter an allince without saing all the posible Allies.Vasco, Member of the Rally for Democracy
Re: Re: Libertarian Party
I think having some level of minimum wage is important. Enough that a full time worker can afford food and a roof at least.
Personally, I'd rather support a "civil union" with all the same rights as a marriage. Not an important issue to me.
EU- that really depends on Eutopia's economic and political position which I'm not really sure about. As an American, I'm against a rival economic power forming, but that should hardly affect my decision as a Eutopian citizen. Again, not a biggie.
Death penalty- I'm ambivalent on this one.
Citizenship- As there doesn't appear to be such a thing as an "ethnic Eutopian," I'll assume you mean natural born citizens. Of course they should automatically get citizenship. I have no objection to immigrants serving public service before being naturalized.
I think having some level of minimum wage is important. Enough that a full time worker can afford food and a roof at least.
Personally, I'd rather support a "civil union" with all the same rights as a marriage. Not an important issue to me.
EU- that really depends on Eutopia's economic and political position which I'm not really sure about. As an American, I'm against a rival economic power forming, but that should hardly affect my decision as a Eutopian citizen. Again, not a biggie.
Death penalty- I'm ambivalent on this one.
Citizenship- As there doesn't appear to be such a thing as an "ethnic Eutopian," I'll assume you mean natural born citizens. Of course they should automatically get citizenship. I have no objection to immigrants serving public service before being naturalized.
Minimum Wage : same position as Eddie Teach. But I can accept no minimum wage.
Homosexual Marriage : Absolutely YES. Don't care about Religious position. I see no difference ( in the need for Liberty ) between a man and a woman. Marriage is basically just a contract and gives some fiscal advantages.
OOC : In RL I'm not married but have I child. So my position is not related to a personnal perspective. It's a phylosophical position.
European Union : I'm European, my position is as understandable as yours. But Europe's position are more strict regarding Environmental Topics whereas USA match no such clauses.
Death penalty : Murdering a murder is just another murder. Lifelong emprisonnement with no possibility to get 'grace' is sufficient. But prison should be really prison, not a golden cage with TV and Microwave.
I wasn't talking of a public service neccessarely in the Army. Citizenship requires a commitment : rights and duties.
Concerning alliances : agree on the fact that we know more or less where our friends are, a preset alliance is not neccessarely.
Homosexual Marriage : Absolutely YES. Don't care about Religious position. I see no difference ( in the need for Liberty ) between a man and a woman. Marriage is basically just a contract and gives some fiscal advantages.
OOC : In RL I'm not married but have I child. So my position is not related to a personnal perspective. It's a phylosophical position.
European Union : I'm European, my position is as understandable as yours. But Europe's position are more strict regarding Environmental Topics whereas USA match no such clauses.
Death penalty : Murdering a murder is just another murder. Lifelong emprisonnement with no possibility to get 'grace' is sufficient. But prison should be really prison, not a golden cage with TV and Microwave.
I wasn't talking of a public service neccessarely in the Army. Citizenship requires a commitment : rights and duties.
Concerning alliances : agree on the fact that we know more or less where our friends are, a preset alliance is not neccessarely.
Mr. Jean Passeportout,
I'm still wondering if our party is very homogene. I haven't seen a clear political Leitmotiv in the first thread post where it should be except a copy paste from one of my posts. If I should bring those elements "IN" I request a "function". But then again are my views right in this party ?
Our efforts to get new members are inexistant, our efforts to get our voice heard in other parties are on the same path ... this is all due to the unclear party opinions.
Please acknowledge.
Sincerely.
Apebe
I'm still wondering if our party is very homogene. I haven't seen a clear political Leitmotiv in the first thread post where it should be except a copy paste from one of my posts. If I should bring those elements "IN" I request a "function". But then again are my views right in this party ?
Our efforts to get new members are inexistant, our efforts to get our voice heard in other parties are on the same path ... this is all due to the unclear party opinions.
Please acknowledge.
Sincerely.
Apebe
Let's hammer out an exact platform now. Put foward ideas, and we'll decide on them, and edit the initial post.
First of all I think I would call myself more liberal leaning towards libertarianism than true libertarian(this said from a swedish perspective where the big divide is between liberals and socialists rather than between liberals and convervatives) though it appears that this party might be rather responsible in its quest for liberty.
As a prospective party member I can only agree what Mr. Apebe said, it is slightly unlcear what official party policy is and what is just the personal opinion of members.
To try to get a clearer picture of what your party believes I would like to adress a couple of issues and see what kind of comments they will give rise to.
I fully agree with the stand on prostitution and gambling(if I interpreted it correctly).
I see absolutely no reason to ban gambling though I would not mind a tax on gambling that goes to financing care for people that become adicted.
As for prostitution I see no reason to outlaw for people to do something for money that they would be perfectly allowed to do for free. I would not be against a law that bans other people than the actual prostitute from making any money from the transaction though, this since prostitues tend to be at the bottom of society and therefor easely becomes victims of pimps and similar charachters.
I totally and unconditionally oppose the death penalty. It appears that this party so far agrees with this, it does worry me however that a number of members waver, will the opposition to the death penalty stand?
I support the idea that it is not the for the state to interfere in peoples choice of partner, therefore hetero- and homosexual marriages should have equal status. Since I also believe in the separation of chruch and state I believe that the state cannot force a religion to accept the same principle From a legal standpoint, however, all marriages should be treated equal nomather who preformed the ceremony.
I'm very sceptical to legalization of any drug not currently legal. At the very least I would whish for a declaration that very careful studies need to be carried out before any relaxation of laws is proposed.
I notice that hospitals is on the 'public sphere list'. My own position on this that while healthcare should be financed by the state there is nothing wrong with privately run hospitals. Same goes for education.
I beleive that EUtopia should have an active foregin policy where 1% of our GDP goes to foregin aid and where we are able to participate in UN suported peacekeeping, peacemaking and conflict preventing missions.
We should have strong defence force, both capable of dettering attack on our country, aid in civilian crisises(such as floods and earth quakes) as well as protect EUtopian intrests abroad and participate in UN missions. I belive this is helped by joining NATO.
About the abortion issue. Do I understand it correctly if I say that this party has no stand on this at all? Would this party fight a law that bans all abortions unless under extreme circumstances? I definately would.
I support entry into the EU. We have much in common with the rest of Europe and our entry into the union would strengthen our possibilities to influence the rest of the world, improve our possibilites to to trade and help to build a stable and peaceful future both for EUtopia and Europe as a whole.
I support the idea of a minimum standard of living, this would in effect mean some sort of welfare that you cannot loose. I also believe that there should be a minimum wage that coincides with the minimum standard of living(this would in effect only apply to foreginers who work temporarily in EUtopia since noone would take a job i welfare pays more.)
Adoption: I believe that gay couples should have the same right to be tried as parents as straight ones.
Don't know if I missed anything now...
As a prospective party member I can only agree what Mr. Apebe said, it is slightly unlcear what official party policy is and what is just the personal opinion of members.
To try to get a clearer picture of what your party believes I would like to adress a couple of issues and see what kind of comments they will give rise to.
I fully agree with the stand on prostitution and gambling(if I interpreted it correctly).
I see absolutely no reason to ban gambling though I would not mind a tax on gambling that goes to financing care for people that become adicted.
As for prostitution I see no reason to outlaw for people to do something for money that they would be perfectly allowed to do for free. I would not be against a law that bans other people than the actual prostitute from making any money from the transaction though, this since prostitues tend to be at the bottom of society and therefor easely becomes victims of pimps and similar charachters.
I totally and unconditionally oppose the death penalty. It appears that this party so far agrees with this, it does worry me however that a number of members waver, will the opposition to the death penalty stand?
I support the idea that it is not the for the state to interfere in peoples choice of partner, therefore hetero- and homosexual marriages should have equal status. Since I also believe in the separation of chruch and state I believe that the state cannot force a religion to accept the same principle From a legal standpoint, however, all marriages should be treated equal nomather who preformed the ceremony.
I'm very sceptical to legalization of any drug not currently legal. At the very least I would whish for a declaration that very careful studies need to be carried out before any relaxation of laws is proposed.
I notice that hospitals is on the 'public sphere list'. My own position on this that while healthcare should be financed by the state there is nothing wrong with privately run hospitals. Same goes for education.
I beleive that EUtopia should have an active foregin policy where 1% of our GDP goes to foregin aid and where we are able to participate in UN suported peacekeeping, peacemaking and conflict preventing missions.
We should have strong defence force, both capable of dettering attack on our country, aid in civilian crisises(such as floods and earth quakes) as well as protect EUtopian intrests abroad and participate in UN missions. I belive this is helped by joining NATO.
About the abortion issue. Do I understand it correctly if I say that this party has no stand on this at all? Would this party fight a law that bans all abortions unless under extreme circumstances? I definately would.
I support entry into the EU. We have much in common with the rest of Europe and our entry into the union would strengthen our possibilities to influence the rest of the world, improve our possibilites to to trade and help to build a stable and peaceful future both for EUtopia and Europe as a whole.
I support the idea of a minimum standard of living, this would in effect mean some sort of welfare that you cannot loose. I also believe that there should be a minimum wage that coincides with the minimum standard of living(this would in effect only apply to foreginers who work temporarily in EUtopia since noone would take a job i welfare pays more.)
Adoption: I believe that gay couples should have the same right to be tried as parents as straight ones.
Don't know if I missed anything now...
I'm not sure we can come to a full consensus. Looking around, it seems there are less than 20 members of all parties at the moment. Not very many for narrowly alligned parties. If we want to stay cohesive, we'll have to focus on broad areas of agreement. As I see it, these could/should be:
Economics- Minimal government regulations should exist to ensure fair business practices and environmental protection. However, the government should not meddle further. Private enterprise is more efficient than government controlled corporations. Taxes should be low, and should be primarily spent on education, defense, and infrastructure. Subsidies should not be supported. Free trade should.
Personal Freedoms(this to separate us from the Free Republicans)- We support legalized gambling, prostitution, adult pornography, marijuana use and favor treatment programs rather than prison for hard drug users. We are against military conscription.
Since a strong support for abortion would be a deal-breaker for me, and homosexual marriage seems to be one for Jools, the party should step lightly on those. Our candidates may still support laws regarding these, but the party's position should be ambivalent.
Economics- Minimal government regulations should exist to ensure fair business practices and environmental protection. However, the government should not meddle further. Private enterprise is more efficient than government controlled corporations. Taxes should be low, and should be primarily spent on education, defense, and infrastructure. Subsidies should not be supported. Free trade should.
Personal Freedoms(this to separate us from the Free Republicans)- We support legalized gambling, prostitution, adult pornography, marijuana use and favor treatment programs rather than prison for hard drug users. We are against military conscription.
Since a strong support for abortion would be a deal-breaker for me, and homosexual marriage seems to be one for Jools, the party should step lightly on those. Our candidates may still support laws regarding these, but the party's position should be ambivalent.
I thing we should each set principles that are not_negotiable/negotiable. If this fits together then we have the party line.
Therefore I suggest this 'open' poll.
Respond by Yes (Y) or No (N).
Big characters if it's NOT negotiable. Small characters if the position CAN be slightly changed or left to conscious close.
Please copy /paste the topics if you agree with my poll proposal.
I have very probably forgot many topics, adde them and I will answer.
Domestic Policy
Economical Topic
Free Market : Y
State Companies ( Telephone, Airways, Shipyards ...) : N
State Intervention with negative budget policy : N
Minimum wage : y
Solidarity Taxes (like on Fortune) : N
Social and philosophical Topic
Death penalty abolition : Y
Abortion : y ( conscious clause)
Homosexual Marriage : y
Gambling legalization : Y
Prostitution Legalisation : Y
State morale based on Christian value : N
Defence Topic
Conscription : N
Increase of Defence budget : n (better use of actual important budget)
International Policy
Kyoto Ratification ( free trade ): Y
WTO (in French OMC) Ratification : Y
NATO Ratification : n
EU future member : y
Therefore I suggest this 'open' poll.
Respond by Yes (Y) or No (N).
Big characters if it's NOT negotiable. Small characters if the position CAN be slightly changed or left to conscious close.
Please copy /paste the topics if you agree with my poll proposal.
I have very probably forgot many topics, adde them and I will answer.
Domestic Policy
Economical Topic
Free Market : Y
State Companies ( Telephone, Airways, Shipyards ...) : N
State Intervention with negative budget policy : N
Minimum wage : y
Solidarity Taxes (like on Fortune) : N
Social and philosophical Topic
Death penalty abolition : Y
Abortion : y ( conscious clause)
Homosexual Marriage : y
Gambling legalization : Y
Prostitution Legalisation : Y
State morale based on Christian value : N
Defence Topic
Conscription : N
Increase of Defence budget : n (better use of actual important budget)
International Policy
Kyoto Ratification ( free trade ): Y
WTO (in French OMC) Ratification : Y
NATO Ratification : n
EU future member : y
M. Besuchov,
do you wish to be active in this party ?
Also I would like to see the Party name changed into :THE LIBS or something in that spirit ( all parties use initials and that is boring )
do you wish to be active in this party ?
Also I would like to see the Party name changed into :THE LIBS or something in that spirit ( all parties use initials and that is boring
)
Free Market- Y
State ownership of non-crucial economic spheres- N
Minimum wage- y
Environmental standards for businesses- Y
Prostitution- Y
Decriminalizing drug use- Y
Legalizing drug use- y
Gambling- Y
Conscription- N
Abortion- conscience vote
Death Penalty- unsure
Homosexual marriages or unions- y
Homosexual adoption- y
Kyoto- ? I thought that was an environmental agreement, not free trade
WTO- y
NATO- y
EU- does it benefit Eutopia economically?
State ownership of non-crucial economic spheres- N
Minimum wage- y
Environmental standards for businesses- Y
Prostitution- Y
Decriminalizing drug use- Y
Legalizing drug use- y
Gambling- Y
Conscription- N
Abortion- conscience vote
Death Penalty- unsure
Homosexual marriages or unions- y
Homosexual adoption- y
Kyoto- ? I thought that was an environmental agreement, not free trade
WTO- y
NATO- y
EU- does it benefit Eutopia economically?
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