Actually I believe it would be good to add an event that creates Phippinnes cores if archipelago annexed by Europeans, to allow separatist revolts.
Form Philippines?
- Thread starter Benito
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
This works as an arguement for colonial Louisiana, but not for the formable tag. Now let me be clear I'm fine with or without the Philippines as a tag, but I would like to point out the game is not entirely consistent on the naming part already, so it could be added.
And, as previously mentioned, there is also the fantasy formation of Rome.
Last edited:
Let's not also forget that trade node named "Philippines" already.
Not a good idea, only Tondo and Maynila are Tagalog. This is a modern map but it illustrates the point:
They can allready form Malay so Phillipines would be pointless (Though Malay needs some fixing)
To truly buy into this argument you'd need to approach the game and the developers as believing that their model is complete versus believing that they're striving for completeness. There's no evidence of the former, so this is only an argument for a future implementation of conditions to prevent non-European origin colonies from forming the tag, and not that this is an argument to go around using incompleteness to justify new dubious changes in Asia-Pacific.
A philippine tag forming Philippines would be like the cherokee forming USA. Yes, their culture still has the name in it, but its the only thing that could be applied to them. I don't think they called themselves 'filipinos' anytime before the XVI century.
Indeed. I posted a suggestion thread on exactly that a couple of years ago. It got some community support in the form of Agrees, but I have no idea whether any devs ever saw it or considered it. I keep a link to it in my signature in the faint hope it will get some more notice. It's a very small thing to campaign for, but I think the logic behind it is sound.
As for the overall subject of the thread, I'm inclined to think there doesn't need to be a tag. Not that I have delved very deeply into Philippine history, but as far as I can tell, there just wasn't any sense among the natives, pre-colonization, that their archipelago was a coherent unit, those islands linked only with each other by any kind of cultural or linguistic or ethnic destiny that excluded other nearby islands like Borneo or Taiwan. The name "Philippines" was taken from the Spanish king under whose reign the islands were colonized by the Spanish; it's not a name any native entity would have adopted without having been colonized by the Spanish first. There are people today who propose renaming the country to "Maharlika" as a way of adopting a native, non-colonialist name. But that name, as applied to the islands or the political entity, is a modern invention; before the twentieth century the word referred to the warrior class of Luzon, not to any ethnic group or geographic region. As others have said, I think that even if Maguindanao or Pangasinan had conquered the entirety of what we now call the Philippines, it just would have been called "the Maguindanao Empire" or "the Pangasinan Empire". I see neither any reason to think they would have thought of themselves as having united their archipelago, nor any name for the archipelago they could have changed their empire's name to in order to reflect that they had united it.
I think there should be a decision to "Unite the Archilelago", which if talken would not change one's tag, but give strong claims of your current one. Kind of how taking the Celestial Empire gives you claims on China.
Hello Filipino here, the problem is, as was mentioned by others, is that there is no known historical prehispanic collective local name for the whole archipelago. The largest geographic names of local origin to describe the archipelago is split in the three island groups we have. This is Luzon (the big island to the north), Visayas/Kabisayaan (the middle islands of Panay, Masbate, Buglas(Negros), Cebu, Bohol, Leyte, Samar), and Mindanao (the big island in the south). We here in the Philippines don't really know what's a better more native name for the archipelago besides colonial names like Filipinas, Philippines, Islas de Poniente, Islas de San Lazaro, etc. I think it was in Pres. Marcos's time that they wanted to rename it like Maharlika to make a more local name that also sounds noble to us. Archipelago in Filipino translates to "Mga Kapuluan" but this didn't officially historically was heard of to be used to refer to our present day country of specifically Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao at least to my and popular knowledge. Sometimes, some people think maybe it's a good idea to instead merge the names into Luzviminda from the first syllables of the major island groupings. I don't think it was very popular and it sounds pretty funny to me but some people who liked it instead used it to name their daughters. lol Some have also gained inspiration from how South American countries like Bolivia have taken their country name from their prominent historical figure so some have proposed to call the country as Rizalia or Republica Rizalina after the national hero, Jose Rizal. but anyways, I think the historical notion may have focused anyways on the idea of Malaya. Malaya for the Philippines does make sense to us historically if our nation was to be named with a local name because in Filipino, this directly means "Free" which sounds very powerful as a name that could claim sovereignty. Sadly though, the Malays in Malaysia overtook us in naming this lol. If we were to claim our nation to be called Malaya, the Malaysians and Indonesians would claim that we were stealing their name and trying to follow under them or something. This is the same with our concept of Malay people. The Malaysians say they are the Malays. In Filipino, Malay means consciousness and some people do claim that they are Malay people too but this is because the history of most Filipino people groups a thousand years ago was migration from Borneo with Balangay ships to the coasts of the islands in our archipelago.
Anyways, I agree that it would be plenty useful if we had a decision to Unite the Archipelago to gain strong claims of sort on the whole archipelago as sort of a right or legacy for the prehispanic state that does unite the archipelago earlier than our present timeline. If european nations colonize the Philippines, it would be plenty historical too for a colonial country to break free or be released. This can happen any time through the centuries within the spanish colonial period since every century in the spanish colonial period saw numerous unsuccessful revolts to try and oust the Spanish or to simply protest unjust acts. To be honest, the flags the game uses for the present prehispanic states in the game such as Madyas, Pangasinan, and to some extent Maynila are better suited for a previously colonized free Philippines than for them lol since the mythical sun was more of an inspiration influenced from successful latin american revolutions that ousted the Spanish. The newly independent previous colony can be called through different names as historically called: The Philippines/The Philippine Islands (in English), Las Islas Filipinas/Felipinas / Las Islas de Poniente / Las Islas de San Lazaro / Moluccas (in Spanish), Ilhas do Oriente/Filipinas/Philippina (in Portuguese), Las Isles Philippines (in French), or Lǚ sòng / Lūsòng (吕宋) in Chinese, or Ruson (吕宋) in Japanese (both are historical reference to the country but known through contact with Luzon Island). I'm not sure what the dutch and the french historically called us besides their present-day diplomatic name for us. Indonesians called us with varying names referring to specific places like Manila was called like Kota Seludong but I'm not exactly sure what they generally called the whole archipelago cuz sometimes they didn't think it was part of their idea of Nusantara which maybe sometimes included the island of Mindanao. They probably referred to the place with the usual Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao since the portuguese learned of Luzon when they were present around the Malacca strait by calling it "Ilhas Luções" or "Luçon" and Mindanao as "Ilhas de Liquíos Celebes" in reference to the Celebes Sea south of Mindanao. Although the people of the state of Sabah in present day Malaysia have their nickname for their land as "Negeri Di Bawah Bayu" which means the Land Below the Wind/Storms, this could hint at what people around Malaysia and Indonesia used to think of and call the Philippines in the past which may have something to do with Storms and Winds. Bagyo in Tagalog does mean Storm which could be cognate to their use of Bayu but yeah anyways, there are also many different people groups in the Philippines. Having the culture be called Filipino is also a bit silly and breaks a bit of immersion if you were playing a prehispanic philippine state but again, we don't know what's a more accurate word to group everyone here. Perhaps, you could say Bruneian or Bornay or Bornean since the Philippine Language Family does share in larger part to the Bruneian languages but this is obviously controversial to do so. If we are to split the cultures up like how Japan was split up if we don't want to be too specific in each provinces, we could name the cultures like Luzones / Luções, Bisaya, Mindanawan / Lumad / Moro for each island group. If being specific is to be permitted and I think would be plenty better, the provinces in northern luzon could be Ilocano and/or pangasinense, south central luzon could be tagalog and/or kapampangan and bikolano, visayas could be just Bisaya or further split up to the 3 main big languages in the region which is Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) in the west, Cebuano in the center, Waray in the east, at Mindanao, the place could be Lumad and/or Moro. I think the presence of Cebuano, Zamboangueño, Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) in Mindanao might just be later migrations enforced by the Spaniards.
Anyways, I agree that it would be plenty useful if we had a decision to Unite the Archipelago to gain strong claims of sort on the whole archipelago as sort of a right or legacy for the prehispanic state that does unite the archipelago earlier than our present timeline. If european nations colonize the Philippines, it would be plenty historical too for a colonial country to break free or be released. This can happen any time through the centuries within the spanish colonial period since every century in the spanish colonial period saw numerous unsuccessful revolts to try and oust the Spanish or to simply protest unjust acts. To be honest, the flags the game uses for the present prehispanic states in the game such as Madyas, Pangasinan, and to some extent Maynila are better suited for a previously colonized free Philippines than for them lol since the mythical sun was more of an inspiration influenced from successful latin american revolutions that ousted the Spanish. The newly independent previous colony can be called through different names as historically called: The Philippines/The Philippine Islands (in English), Las Islas Filipinas/Felipinas / Las Islas de Poniente / Las Islas de San Lazaro / Moluccas (in Spanish), Ilhas do Oriente/Filipinas/Philippina (in Portuguese), Las Isles Philippines (in French), or Lǚ sòng / Lūsòng (吕宋) in Chinese, or Ruson (吕宋) in Japanese (both are historical reference to the country but known through contact with Luzon Island). I'm not sure what the dutch and the french historically called us besides their present-day diplomatic name for us. Indonesians called us with varying names referring to specific places like Manila was called like Kota Seludong but I'm not exactly sure what they generally called the whole archipelago cuz sometimes they didn't think it was part of their idea of Nusantara which maybe sometimes included the island of Mindanao. They probably referred to the place with the usual Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao since the portuguese learned of Luzon when they were present around the Malacca strait by calling it "Ilhas Luções" or "Luçon" and Mindanao as "Ilhas de Liquíos Celebes" in reference to the Celebes Sea south of Mindanao. Although the people of the state of Sabah in present day Malaysia have their nickname for their land as "Negeri Di Bawah Bayu" which means the Land Below the Wind/Storms, this could hint at what people around Malaysia and Indonesia used to think of and call the Philippines in the past which may have something to do with Storms and Winds. Bagyo in Tagalog does mean Storm which could be cognate to their use of Bayu but yeah anyways, there are also many different people groups in the Philippines. Having the culture be called Filipino is also a bit silly and breaks a bit of immersion if you were playing a prehispanic philippine state but again, we don't know what's a more accurate word to group everyone here. Perhaps, you could say Bruneian or Bornay or Bornean since the Philippine Language Family does share in larger part to the Bruneian languages but this is obviously controversial to do so. If we are to split the cultures up like how Japan was split up if we don't want to be too specific in each provinces, we could name the cultures like Luzones / Luções, Bisaya, Mindanawan / Lumad / Moro for each island group. If being specific is to be permitted and I think would be plenty better, the provinces in northern luzon could be Ilocano and/or pangasinense, south central luzon could be tagalog and/or kapampangan and bikolano, visayas could be just Bisaya or further split up to the 3 main big languages in the region which is Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) in the west, Cebuano in the center, Waray in the east, at Mindanao, the place could be Lumad and/or Moro. I think the presence of Cebuano, Zamboangueño, Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) in Mindanao might just be later migrations enforced by the Spaniards.
Last edited:
The ingame Malay culture group is too broad. One "Filipino" culture group with Tagalog, Cebuano and one or two more cultures could do a better representation of this diverse region. And why not the hindu, sunni, catholic and "animist" versions of Philipines, like the Hindustan and Bharat India?
By the way, we need to stop this "animist" religion for both Asia and South American regions. Any name idea for each region´s religion?
By the way, we need to stop this "animist" religion for both Asia and South American regions. Any name idea for each region´s religion?
Last edited:
Is this a map of languages, cities, cultures? And I have to admit, the devs research into this game have taught me so much stuff. I have learned so much from researching things in-game and posts on these forums and it is just incredible. Especially @Trin Tragula with the very detailed historical/political information on map updates.Not a good idea, only Tondo and Maynila are Tagalog. This is a modern map but it illustrates the point:
Ab-so-*******-lutely. At least split off Malayan, Sumatran, Bruneian, Sulawesi and Javan into a "Sundanese" group or something.
It's a map of the major native languages that dominate each present-day province of our country.
Some notes about this though, Kapampangan is mispelled as Kampangan. It should be "Kapampangan", after the province of Pampanga. I surmise the old local name of the province must've been Pampangan or Kapangpangan too as opposed to present-day Pampanga which I'm not sure if the -a suffix is purely a spanish addition because pampang means riverbank in both Tagalog and Kapampangan. In the old days as well before the spanish arrival, central luzon must've been dominated by Kapampangan speakers rather than Tagalog which I think natively inhabited the southwestern provinces in Luzon. I think Tagalog was more native to Bulacan, Maynila, Rizal province(this didn't used to exist separately), Cavite, Batangas, Laguna, Quezon Province (this used to be called Tayabas after it's old regional capital).
Mindoro might've had a different language centuries ago and was not actually called "Mindoro" centuries ago since this is spanish for Minas de Oro meaning Mines of Gold. Historians think maybe the island of Mindoro used to be where the old Ma'i state was because there was some old district in one of the towns called Mait but they aren't exactly sure if they're just mixing this up with the old settlement of Bae/Bai around Laguna. Laguna too was not called "Laguna" before the spanish arrival since this is spanish for Lagoon which is what they named the nearby Lagoon/Lake as Laguna de Bay because it was the Lagoon/Lake situated by it's oldest settlement which is Bae/Bai which the spanish called as "Bay". This is pronounced as in like Bah-y or Bah-ih/ Bah-eh.
As for Palawan, these days I think they are more dominated by Tagalog speakers ever since the 1980s but Cuyonon used to be the lingua franca of Palawan (Palawan and Taytay in the game) which was a visayan language. Cuyonon comes from the Cuyo Islands(where Taytay is in the game). The Cuyonon people used to have powerful Datus(lords) and royal families as an elite class to Palawan based on Taytay. These days some claim that there used to be some sort of kingdom of Taytay in the region before with their line of kings or datus that they've said to have recorded. Palawan used to be called like i think it was Perawan or something back in the prehispanic period or at least that was kinda how they pronounced it. The Spanish heard this as Paragua so they named the island as Paragua. It was renamed back to Palawan eventually. The chinese traders used to call the island as Kla-ma-yan(Calamian), Palau-ye (Palawan), and Paki-nung (Busuanga).
As for Panay island, there are really a rainbow mix of languages in that island but all of them are visayan languages related to each other. I think the dominant language might be Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) though I'm not sure if visayans of Panay island will kill me for saying that. Panay might've been a spanish name but we're not completely sure but it had different names for the island through different time periods. The native Ati people used to call it like Simsiman or Aninipay but when the Barter of Panay event happened and Malay settlers came and bought the land, it was called Madia-as or Madja-as after the highest mountain in the island. This is pronounced the same thing or even spelled the same way as Madyas in the game.
Buglas or better known today as Negros Island is split in two provinces today known as Negros Occidental and Negros Oriental. Both just refer to West and East respectively. This is because the island has Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) speakers in the west and Cebuano speakers in the east. I have a classmate in college who's from Bacolod (the provincial capital of Negros occidental) meaning he grew up knowing Hiligaynon(Ilonggo). I think he may have mentioned that in their island, they may have used Bisaya/Binisaya as well which I think in his mind might mean some sort of combined Hiligaynon(Ilonggo) and Cebuano language, maybe as some sort of political move to unify the island. This is because in reality Bisaya is a language grouping or umbrella term for the visayan language branch which when you hear people around the philippines mention Bisaya, they are usually probably referring to cebuano or some other visayan language.
As for Cebu island (including tiny Mactan island beside it), this is of course dominated by cebuanos based in Cebu city which I think in prehispanic times used to be called like Sugbu or something so sometimes they call themselves as Sugbuano. In Bohol Island (including tiny Panglao island underneath it and I think southern portions of Leyte island), I think Bol-anon / Binol-anon is a Cebuano dialect used by native visayan Boholanos.
As for Leyte and Samar island, both are dominated by Waray language (Waray-waray) which is also a visayan language. Though Leyte is geographically split in half by cebuano dialects and waray so they too just deal with that situation by just calling it all Bisaya.
As for Bikol, they are pretty old people too with some vague barangays or lakanates with their own lakans and datus or something. They speak bikolano languages and in the southernmost portion of the Bikol region, there's a mix of visayan(bisaya) languages with bikolano languages which they call as Bisakol. Bisakol is also sometimes spoken in Masbate island where they speak Masbateño/Minasbate which is also a visayan language. Bisakol might itself just be something to describe and call transitional languages between bikol languages and visayan languages which this includes Masbateño. Romblomanon in Romblon is also a visayan language which has spread a little bit to oriental(east) mindoro.
As for Mindanao, in the present-day and historically, it seems if I could say that they may have been culture converted lol in the past centuries. I think it used to be in prehispanic times that the place was dominated by Moro and Lumad peoples. Moro is spanish for Moor which means they are muslim people. Lumad are the, I think, animist people which haven't converted to christianity or to muslims. Those are umbrella terms for them but these days Mindanao is swarming with visayans because the spanish solution to rooting out the moors which fought the hardest against spanish encrouchment was to slowly colonize Mindanao using christianized visayans. On the map, you see the Moros there are Maranao, Maguindanao, Yakan, Tausug, Bajau. The old Palawano and Tagbanwa of Palawan I think were Moros too back then. Today, the same people there where you see Maranao and Maguindanao are the same muslim people today that want to claim a separatist muslim country called Bangsamoro (Moro country) and the place ISIS Maute launched a siege on Marawi city. Meanwhile the Moros of Sulu which are those Yakan, Tausug, Bajau are the people of the old Sultanate of Sulu that claim a part of the state of Sabah from Malaysia due to an old gift of cession by the old Sultanate of Brunei to them centuries ago for helping in some war.
Then in Mindanao, you also see the Surigaonon and Kamayo mentioned there are also visayan languages that have spread there many centuries before. As for Zamboanga, this I think used to be called Samboangan or Jambangan which I think has something to do with the place where you moor ships in. Zamboangueño is very unique since it is the largest surviving spanish-based creole of the Philippines also called Chavacano specifically chavacano de zamboanga that has become the surviving lingua franca of the region. Due to it's position on the map, it's very close to the Muslim Moros and so was in some way like a sort of a march against them using local military forts against Moro pirates and slave raiders from Sulu. The ethnogenesis of the Zamboangueños is a mesh of spaniards, mexicans, peruvians, visayans from panay, cebu, negros, bohol, other chavacanos from cavite, and intermarriage with the local Subanon ethnic group which I think were the main people of Zamboanga in prehispanic times.
With this in mind lol, sometimes I feel there should be an event to give an option for prehispanic philippine states to convert to roman catholicism or christianity in general lol like Japan has. The deus vult in me calls for taking out the hindu, buddhist, muslim things out the country haha.
Also, the part where it says on the map, Kalinga, Kankanaey, Ifugao can be classed as a whole as Igorot or Cordillerans since this is what we popularly just call all them highlanders.
Last edited:
Yeah but if just Tagalog or Cebuano, a filipino provincial that's not tagalog or cebuano might get mad at that. Luzones / Luções and Bisaya might do better or maybe Ilocano, Tagalog, Bisaya, Lumad, Moro. If you don't want it called animist, here in the philippines, we might associate calling the pagan animist folk religion as "Anito" or something of the sort. not sure about other neighboring countries. I know though that their animist religions seem to look similar to ours too at least in the sculptures and carvings used and maybe names of practices.