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You do have to admire the Western Allies's persistence. They do not quit.

Will these new nukes be used to finally deal with the USSR and the Eastern Front? Hopefully get Russia to bail on their invasion?
 
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With a first nuke in your arsenal it slid surely time to begin a new Drang nach Osten.

I’m curious why the Soviet AI has held back so far. Even some probing assaults would quickly grind you down given your manpower shortages.
 
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It's truely suicidal as its two HQ's attacking. It really is the guilt within the officer corps driving themselves to do this, I could not think of another explanation kuch kuch bad AI kuch kuch
Admittedly it's not even bad if they couple it with a marine corps that fills the efficiently commanded spots, as the hqs are great damage sponges. Ai does it wrong ofc

I have heard when the British Isle is occupied by Germany, the USA AI change to the mode that desperately sends their boys to the Isle, which would be in your case now. However, It seems that the Italian nav bombers and submarines could handle it.
After the Pacific Theater is closed, they will send more and more of their boys to European seas (and then Poseidon's abode).
Likely is the case from everything I've seen playing, though I know very little about the AI coding and how its logic changes. Thanks for the heads up!

The images you post are really of superb quality.
How are you doing it? Whenever I try to use a good image it gets resized and reworked in a way that everything gets blurry. And I haven't managed to figure out neither image in size of XxY nor in kb to stop the forum software to scramble my images.
I normally snip and paste into paint, after which I save the file as png. That one can be uploaded without the forum affecting the size in any way.


Whow, 4 capital and 6 screens destroyed at a loss of 3 HSubs... as much as I have prayed about the combat effectiveness of HSubs, I am still astonished about how OP they are. It would need a dedicated fleet of 20 or more modern DDs with ASW to fight that 30er-stack of HSubs. A fleet of modern dirtcheap plain CVEs without any brigades could do the job, too (CVE-4 or newer). But the DH naval scripts sadly haven't got the ability to detect an enemy fleet and then compose a dedicated hunter fleet against it. With no modding experience I wonder if that is even possible with the tools available?
So a 30er HSub stack is unbeatable. But in an 1945 Germany Endsieg scenario I wouldn't expect a player to play fair with, let's say, putting a max on HSub stacks to 6... the odds against you aren't fair neither. Fairness wasn't really an attribute associated with the Wehrmacht anyway (or with any army when to think about it).

Thanks for the resources overview.
Even a dedicated modern DD fleet won't do jack unless they outskill the enemy admiral significantly (iirc 2-3 points), as the subs+fp outrange them and they can't even close in due to the way the subs work. I could have made this work using navs and/or dedicated carrier buildup, but it would take significantly longer. I did wanna spare the audience the terror of following this into the 80s lol

You do have to admire the Western Allies's persistence. They do not quit.

Will these new nukes be used to finally deal with the USSR and the Eastern Front? Hopefully get Russia to bail on their invasion?

They have enough men and resources to throw away, if I had a fraction of that this run would have been done by now. Nukes are a rare commodity, but they will definitely be used in the future. Patience, my friend, all will be clear when the time comes.

With a first nuke in your arsenal it slid surely time to begin a new Drang nach Osten.

I’m curious why the Soviet AI has held back so far. Even some probing assaults would quickly grind you down given your manpower shortages.
One nuke isn't even remotely enough to push the heavily motorized Soviets. It is a start, though. The reason the Soviet AI doesn't attack is because it will never use more than ca. 110% of their max command limit in a battle, and if their power calculation doesn't show that they can win it at all, they won't attack. For better or for worse, they have no way of assessing the potential gains offered by a protracted meatgrinder. My force distribution is at all times just *barely* enough to skew their force calculation in such a way. It has a little breathing room, but if they happened to have 48 tank divs around a 2-axes-of-attack province, they would attack. Luckily they tend to spread forces randomly, so it hasn't happened. I failed to hold Capodistria before due to a miscalculation where I had assumed that they wouldn't send as many forces to Yugoslavia as they are their puppet and they use a separate power calculation, but I got way too cocky.
 
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Even a dedicated modern DD fleet won't do jack unless they outskill the enemy admiral significantly (iirc 2-3 points), as the subs+fp outrange them and they can't even close in due to the way the subs work.
Mmh, I wonder. What show your battle reports at what distance your HSubs usually attack? In my experience they get as close as possible and rarely do they use their range advantage (I have seen them doing, though, but, well, rarely). Perhaps to simulate the German subs tactic to strike from within a convoy.

With 1945 tech a DD with ASW can have a subdetection of 19 and subattack of 21 (!). That's quite a lot, actually overkill, you can already do a lot against subs with DD-7s (1937). DH is quite faithful to history in this regard: subs were extremely powerful in the beginning of the war until the allies developed tactics and tech and then, from on 1943 (Black May), the tides turned and it got worse and worse. There were barely any surviving sailors of German subs after the war.

But the dirtcheap option for the USA would be (as they actually did in history) to build CVE-5: subdetection 8, subattack 12, attack range 41... which in DH are as cheap as 47 IC for 1 CVE and built in only 157 days. An unbelievable tenth what a German HSub with FP costs and built in half the time. Well, but DH naval scripts aren't fit to do so, I guess, in this way it is a superfluous discussion. Just wanted to make a point vs "Even a dedicated modern DD fleet won't do jack". I am curious what in MP-games is done to fight German sub stacks...
 
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Mmh, I wonder. What show your battle reports at what distance your HSubs usually attack? In my experience they get as close as possible and rarely do they use their range advantage (I have seen them doing, though, but, well, rarely). Perhaps to simulate the German subs tactic to strike from within a convoy.

With 1945 tech a DD with ASW can have a subdetection of 19 and subattack of 21 (!). That's quite a lot, actually overkill, you can already do a lot against subs with DD-7s (1937). DH is quite faithful to history in this regard: subs were extremely powerful in the beginning of the war until the allies developed tactics and tech and then, from on 1943 (Black May), the tides turned and it got worse and worse. There were barely any surviving sailors of German subs after the war.

But the dirtcheap option for the USA would be (as they actually did in history) to build CVE-5: subdetection 8, subattack 12, attack range 41... which in DH are as cheap as 47 IC for 1 CVE and built in only 157 days. An unbelievable tenth what a German HSub with FP costs and built in half the time. Well, but DH naval scripts aren't fit to do so, I guess, in this way it is a superfluous discussion. Just wanted to make a point vs "Even a dedicated modern DD fleet won't do jack". I am curious what in MP-games is done to fight German sub stacks...
There is a huge difference between normal subs and heavies. Normal subs do indeed close in and trade fairly kill for kill, but heavies outrange lone destroyers in 9/10 cases on contact with contemporary doctrines and DD37. CVEs look good on paper, but they run into the issue of being considered capitals and often needing one hour for targeting. As such, they end up losing 1-4 units on hour 1, as well as fighting 15v30 with inferior positioning.

In mp, heavy subs are usually banned due to being uncounterable with contemporary tech and normal subs can be fought with dds and cves, so they usually aren't regulated.
 
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There is a huge difference between normal subs and heavies.
I know. I barely use normal subs, just those already existing at the game start.
And I am aware that a HSub/FP has a max firing distance of 25 and thus outranging every DD... in theory. In practice, as I said, I see them rarely using their range advantage. Many encounters, even when initiated by the HSubs, start at a distance of 5.

I wonder what causes the difference in your battles... I've just looked up the stats because mostly I use HSub-2 but the difference to HSub-4 is minimal, it's mainly their sailing range what gets enlarged. Are you sure that your HSubs in most cases keep a distance between 20-25 from the enemy ships? Except modern CVE and DD basically all other ship types are basically helpless against HSubs. So against a CV/BB-CA/CL-fleet it doesn't really matter when they close in, they wouldn't take much damage and you wouldn't recognise the short distance except when stopping the game and looking at the stats (what I usually do, I love my naval battles).

CVEs look good on paper, but they run into the issue of being considered capitals and often needing one hour for targeting. As such, they end up losing 1-4 units on hour 1, as well as fighting 15v30 with inferior positioning.
Well, some time ago there was a discussion on this board what on earth (or rather what on sea) to do with CVEs and if they have any usage at all. They are the weirdest ship type in DH, got dysfuctional after several changes made in the game, a kind of relic from earlier versions. The discussion, to our surpise, yielded 3 posible uses for CVEs:

1) From on CVE-4 they get unbelievable cheap. As cheap that it is cheaper to build 1 CVE and scrap it for 10 convoy escorts than actually bulding those 10 convoy escorts.

2) As cheap as... who cares when you loose a few of them when you can build 10 CVEs for the same price as 1 HSUB. Basically the same principle under which HSubs run but even more extreme.

3) Well, while the former 2 usages can be rightly called gamey and pure abuse, we also found one(!) proper usage: In a turn around of roles, they make actually quite good escorts for sub-hunting DD-fleets. Those DD-fleets might be dangerous for subs but have to fear any other ship type and fleet. CVEs with their firing distance of around 40 and rather good sea detection values give those DDs cheap protection:
a) If they meet a surface fleet, capital ship firing distance is automatically used because CVEs count as capitals. Good protection against the typical fleets hunting DDs usually consisting of CLs and CA which are thus outranged... no good against well-outfitted BB/BC or carriers but who shoots with cannons on sparrows.
b) If they meet subs, though, the sole exception applies from the rule that capitals always dictate the prefered firing distance. Because, if the enemy fleet is subs-only, right from the battle start the prefered battle distance is switched to those of the screens (DDs). So the CVEs at least don't hinder and, as the only capital ship with at least a bit of sub-detection and -attack, they even help a bit.

But the main problem with sub-hunting remains: the visibility of subs is so low that even with rather good sub detection values of modern DD/asw, they still have huge problems finding them. You don't find subs, you are found by them.
 
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wonder what causes the difference in your battles... I've just looked up the stats because mostly I use HSub-2 but the difference to HSub-4 is minimal, it's mainly their sailing range what gets enlarged. Are you sure that your HSubs in most cases keep a distance between 20-25 from the enemy ships? Except modern CVE and DD basically all other ship types are basically helpless against HSubs. So against a CV/BB-CA/CL-fleet it doesn't really matter when they close in, they wouldn't take much damage and you wouldn't recognise the short distance except when stopping the game and looking at the stats (what I usually do, I love my naval battles).
Some time ago I was toying a lot with crafting naval builds and testing a lot of fleet compositions, but sadly my excel spreadsheets on the damage analysis are lost with my previous laptop. What I can tell, however, is:

1) using hss33+fp will usually be enough to outrange pure dd37 fleets on contact, as the first hour is used for targeting by the surface ships. The subs often start in range, but are able to attain their preferred engagement range after 1h, before the DDs can inflict damage. Occasionally it does happen that dds manage to fire off a shot or two if they have equal or better positioning, which isn't the case often.

2) It is indeed possible to fight sub stacks using a naval intelligence minister coupled with a spotter leader, I've found that to be a viable strat in multiplayer, albeit it was in the TRP mod. The AI won't do anything quite as intelligent, so I am fairly comfortable in my subs ruling the waves.

Well, some time ago there was a discussion on this board what on earth (or rather what on sea) to do with CVEs and if they have any usage at all. They are the weirdest ship type in DH, got dysfuctional after several changes made in the game, a kind of relic from earlier versions. The discussion, to our surpise, yielded 3 posible uses for CVEs:
I recall the SAG teleportation in a single hour ;)
I actually do use CVEs for sub hunting fairly successfully, but my main issue in terms of balance is that it isn't a robust method. Perhaps it is intended like that, for subs to be able to slip undetected and smoke the whole cve force, but I'm very much a rock-paper-scissors kind of player. To my great disdain, the multiplayer community is quite dead nowadays, with very few games (that I know of) being organized, so I cannot even authoritatively say whether the approach would be viable on a large scale, as sample size is too low. I can just talk about the several games that I've organized, and they are usually of intermediate skill level due to many players being new.

2) As cheap as... who cares when you loose a few of them when you can build 10 CVEs for the same price as 1 HSUB. Basically the same principle under which HSubs run but even more extreme.
Yes, that is very much true. If one can run a less than 10:1 attrition ratio they would surely be worthwhile. I should probably restart my naval comp testing, since you've piqued my interest, but I'm oh so busy of an individual sadly.

But the main problem with sub-hunting remains: the visibility of subs is so low that even with rather good sub detection values of modern DD/asw, they still have huge problems finding them. You don't find subs, you are found by them.
I 100% agree with the assessment of the problem, but I think the approach you took is inverted. I feel like the visibility values for surface ships are way too high. I have yet to find a better rendition of naval combat than what is done in TRP, and they have unified the visibility as a ratio per tonnage, unless I'm mistaken. It seems to work great both for sub and surface fighting.
 
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Chapter XIIb

The seemingly quieter times in the Reich continue. Germany's enemies, likely acutely aware of the fact she now possesses city-levelling weaponry, are left helpless and are mostly relegated to waiting to see what is to be done with it. Mostly helpless, that is, as the renowned Soviet spies manage to derail further research into nuclear weaponry slightly by spilling coffee all over Heisenberg's lab notes.

screw you.png


With the regretful capitulation of our ally-turned-enemy Japan, the Dutch East Indies see the return of their familiar masters. Maybe it will take a different Axis power to instate an administration more along the wishes of the Indonesian people.

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In what must be the most pitiful conclusion of a civil war in history, the Chinese communists under Mao face annihilation at the hands of a much more powerful Nationalist government, exacted by the forces with whom they have fought the common enemy as recently as days ago. The US and their minions, as well as the USSR, decide not to interfere, as both Chinas remain officially unaligned with any of the major alliances.

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The Abwehr hands in a report of the estimated size of the American merchant fleet. The escort ships now outnumber the freighters by at least two to one, in what must be the saddest state affairs the American naval capacities were ever in. It does indirectly help contain the American ability to project power away from their continent, as they likely are struggling to supply their numerous overseas forces and bases with the limited shipping they have available. Surely it is the time for them to seek a decisive battle in the Atlantic, as otherwise, they may lose any and all influence they hold in it fairly soon.

american convoys topkek.png


To the OKW's great exasperation, the doomed Italian attempt at building a navy to challenge the Allied rule in the Mediterranean with a conventional force results in a waste of industrial power and resources that might have been better used in some other way. The Italians lose their lone destroyer flotilla in an almost effortless air raid, as the Luftwaffe currently lacks the ability to protect the Italian skies as well.

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Germany's first-ever strategic bomber wing is officially assembled at the Kassel airport. Hugo Wever has finally had his ambitions fulfilled beyond the grave.

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In a similar manner to our southern allies, the Danish attempt at a navy is molested from above and suffers serious losses. The remainder are deployed closer to the air cover of the Luftwaffe. Germany's minions seem to have an odd fascination with wasting the alliance's limited time and resources producing borderline useless screen ships. As long as they also produce useful units and keep the population pacified, the OKW or the ruling cabinet in Berlin do not object too much.

danish f.png


Germany resumes to move towards extracting as much raw industrial power from the available factories as possible.

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Despite the unfortunate delay, Heisenberg manages to complete his research into the miniaturized fission bombs. He immediately continues to develop on the idea of a more powerful hydrogen bomb.

miniaturized fission done.png


The only 'reborn' navy to see success happens to be the English one, which keeps their territorial waters safe from underwater pest with a little help from the Italian bombers who, despite being largely ineffective in combating the submarines, relay valuable positioning information to the surface ships.

new british navy w.png


The USA seems to be content to sit and observe the Canadians throwing their ships away in vain attempting to break the blockade of Greenland. A submarine is lost in exchange for two battleships and two carriers, a conversion rate the Kriegsmarine is more than willing to take.

sub lost again.png


The proud traditions of the Royal Navy seem to be alive and well in the new English Navy, as they rip the thus far problematic Red submarines apart routinely.

brits carry their weight.png


Strategic bomber technology has reached a satisfactory level, so the research is redirected towards static anti-air artillery. Despite their trivial usefulness at best, firing a gun at the incoming bombers seems to have a positive effect on the soldiers' morale if nothing else. They occasionally down a plane too.

strat 45 done.png


As if to break the monotony amongst our land forces, the Americans launch an amphibious assault in Taranto. Reinforcements are immediately dispatched due to the rather disorganized state the lone Dennerlein's division finds itself in. Again, the Luftwaffe is largely unable to provide significant air cover over Italy, and the air raids, while not inflicting casualties, also prevented the unit to attain the state of full combat readiness.

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'BINGO!' - screams the naval command, as a huge American carrier fleet is sighted off the coast of Taranto by the Italians. They will attempt to sink some carriers despite the American air superiority in the area.

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The very first attack inflicts significant damage on the American fleet but only manages to dispatch a battleship and its crew across the river Styx.

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And it finally happened. Champagne flows in rivers, the Italians are showered in medals, and the first American carrier sunk since God knows when lays on the bottom of the Ionian Sea.

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However, the carrier seems to only have been gambited, as the landing is secured. Way too fast for the OKW's taste, as the reinforcements are still in transit. The Luftwaffe bombers are dispatched to delay the invaders, as the troops guarding the crossing to Messina are in real danger of being cut off from their supply lifeline. While not critical, that would surely be inconveniencing, as Germany currently lacks the ability to supply large forces across a body of water.

they land.png


Immediately, the beleaguered division gets to experience the full wrath of the American airpower without the luxury of extensive entrenchment.

they landed.png


With more forces pouring in from the sea, the tactical bomber force continues to keep their combat readiness low in an effort to delay their advance long enough to see the arrival of our reinforcements. The Italians also struggle to prevent the arrival of even more Allied units.

luftwaffe buying time for the redeployment.png


Why of course, the US Air Force won't stand idly while that happens, and the bomber force suffers a hard beating. Nevermind, as they are instructed to keep flying the missions regardless. Some sacrifices must be made!

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A Panzer army under General Christiansen arrives in time to Bari. The number of Allied divisions in Taranto has swollen to 12, but they seem to lack any hard-hitting divisions, having brought only infantry in.

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Due to the constant threat of sabotage by enemy spies, additional funding is allocated to the Abwehr for increased counterespionage measures.

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Christiansen wastes little time and commands his panzers onwards. Both forces are in various states of disorganization due to constant bombardment, but there should be no trouble dispatching the Allied forces in a timely manner.

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Indeed it is so. Upon accepting the surrender, it is noted that a significant portion of the force belonged to countries other than the US, with even the Japanese sending units. They seem to be awfully willing to die for the enemy that they fought in a particularly brutal manner until very recently.

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The Italian naval bombers encounter some heavy punishment trying to interfere with the Allied shipping off the coast of Taranto, so a general order is given to cease flying, as the invasion has been repelled and it makes little sense to keep wasting planes and trained pilots.

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With the conclusion of yet another ill-fated American attempt at opening a second front in Europe, an ugly problem rears its head again: the liberation of Italy wasn't completed. The well-stocked airbases of Sicily are proving to be a thorn in the side of our defense efforts in the region, and the necessity to handle them somehow becomes more and more obvious. Curtailing the Allied air traffic to the islands of Sardinia and Malta will immensely improve the ability of the Luftwaffe to tackle any incoming invasions, as well as giving our Italian ally a welcome boost in productive potential.

this may be a problem.png


That evening, at the Chancellery meeting, a daring plan is proposed to the Führer by none other than the favourite obese Iron Knight of the Reich, Hermann Göring. With a smile flickering on his lip (or is it an artifact of the stroke? Who knows?), Hitler signs a case file named simply 'Unternehmen Sturmwind'.
"Let's give them a taste of their own medicine, shall we? Prepare the bomb!" -he exclaims, as the room fills with trepidation.
 
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this may be a problem.png


That evening, at the Chancellery meeting, a daring plan is proposed to the Führer by none other than the favourite obese Iron Knight of the Reich, Hermann Göring. With a smile flickering on his lip (or is it an artifact of the stroke? Who knows?), Hitler signs a case file named simply 'Unternehmen Sturmwind'.
"Let's give them a taste of their own medicine, shall we? Prepare the bomb!" -he exclaims, as the room fills with trepidation.
A bit of a waste of a nuke ngl, but with the wehrmacht in no shape to face the USSR yet, as well a use as any that can be thought up
 
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late to the party, but I am here now, following the featuring of this AAR in @HistoryDude 's Review Corner. Good read so far! :D
 
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A lot of this war might end up being Germany defending Italy. Hopefully they can defeat the Allies enough that turning their attention to the Soviets won't be an utter disaster.
 
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A bit of a waste of a nuke ngl, but with the wehrmacht in no shape to face the USSR yet, as well a use as any that can be thought up
I wouldn't agree. Taking Sicily is borderline impossible without it, and the airbases of Palermo and Siracuse are a huge problem for the defense of Italy, as well as offering additional vectors for the nuking runs. Moreover, Messina is a perfect province to nuke as it doesn't have literally anything of value in it, and I want to avoid destroying the industrial and manpower potential of the Italian national provinces. For any successful repetition of Barbarossa, there must be absolutely zero chance of the Allies reopening a front in force.

late to the party, but I am here now, following the featuring of this AAR in @HistoryDude 's Review Corner. Good read so far! :D
Glad to have you on board!

A lot of this war might end up being Germany defending Italy. Hopefully they can defeat the Allies enough that turning their attention to the Soviets won't be an utter disaster.
Not quite, once Sicily is done, and maybe some other maneuvers are undertaken (Gibraltar hm hm?), the Allies will not be able to threaten me in any significant way. It is a requirement for a successful invasion of the Soviet Union as well.

Damn, I blame this AAR for my dream last night. Nukes were falling and I heard myself shouting: "Don't look into the blast! It will burn out your eyes!" Over and over again... for each nuke exploding. As if that would help, about as much as seeking shelter under the table.
It was horrible.
I am always happy to see my writing increase the suffering in the world if just a little!
 
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Already the Führer had decided to use the first nuke. Still, if I were he, I would move all armies dealing with the allies in Sicily to the north until Naples's line, and when the stupid AI allies advanced there, and Sicily had few guard divisions, using all paratroopers to seize the island, while the armies at Naples (preferably a panzer) doing a counter-attack to the southwest to connecting them, and then I'll encircle the entire allies at Taranto.
 
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Not quite, once Sicily is done, and maybe some other maneuvers are undertaken (Gibraltar hm hm?), the Allies will not be able to threaten me in any significant way. It is a requirement for a successful invasion of the Soviet Union as well.
Can you still get National Spain on board?
 
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Can you still get National Spain on board?

If not, there’s little Franco can do if his old pal comes across the Pyrenees uninvited.

You would think all that Spanish coastline to defend could end up more trouble than it’s worth.
 
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If not, there’s little Franco can do if his old pal comes across the Pyrenees uninvited.

You would think all that Spanish coastline to defend could end up more trouble than it’s worth.
Yeah, but a naval invasion is out of the question with the way how straits work in DH, since controll of a province denies a entire sea tile to enemy factions (except the Bosporus, here you have to controll it to pass through). Knowing that the Canadians could stack the province, a airborne assault is also out of the question. The Spanish coastline may be worth it just because of increasing Mediterranen security if combined with controll over the Suez. Allied controlled North Africa is annoying, but if they can't get ships there it's useless for mounting a assault
 
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