Forgotten & Unfun Mechanics of EU4

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ruzen

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Initially, I started writing on terrain changes back when 1.19[beta] released. It was about how Paradox changes, made simple map mode and all those different terrains becoming useless information. Before I finish my thoughts on subject, 1.19 released and iron-man games become a struggle so thus (since I can't play properly) got me thinking more about the current state of the game. I know most of the Paradox devs have experience enough to continue their ways but they also open to hearing out. It's not a hate & love post or anything. So, there you go.

1) Terrain Doesn't Effect Combat Width Anymore

Estates, core, culture, religion...and now even technology and trade goods effects one single province, in a game where you can have hundreds of them. Which all is good thing besides coring every province (achievement hunters knows better) now we have even more snowball variables and that's what EU4 is all about in the end. A snowball strategy game and occasional RNG to spice things up. So with that direction was EU franchise always followed why all of a sudden they left out the combat from that?

The change makes no sense unless It's a gateway to upcoming idea or DLC. Speculation beside, the current status of EU4 combat is pure RNG now. No combat strategy left at the gameboard beside -1, -2 penalties on attack rolls on some terrain types.

This has to change. The entertainment EU was offering: is that we get to calculate and squeeze every little thing out of the variables, what game offers. With this change simple map mode lost Its purpose, besides Identifying better development provinces. Now combat is rushing tech and having good rolls. This is not fun and certainly, not a direction EU team should continue to follow.

Combat with needs to be present again. Better yet, Terrain effect should be improved for combat. Some terrains could make armies march slower, regain manpower faster or slower, give bonuses or penalties for a certain type of units(Inf,Cav,Art) even siege status RNG could be affected. The possibilities are there and being minded of them is going to make combat much more fun and adds depth. Make simple map mode great again to plan our battles and maneuvers!

2) Re-sending Spy Network

Building spy network and covert options are really fun. The unfun part is I have to track them when they discovered and send them again. Especially in achievement runs where you go 5 speed or in multiplayer games where you can't pause, It always stands in way and only gives annoyance.

Why can't my spy/diplomat just sits there and do nothing for a period of time -just like where I can send missionaries but can't convert province- and I don't have to re-remind myself every other month to send them back again. It is really not fun and doesn't give players something to click in peace time. It only gives annoyance every time.

3) New World and Colonialism are on Life Support

Enough focus has been given to small African nations and different ethnic groups in the old world (besides far east strangely). Portugal, Castile and all other countries where they can colonize should be the most enjoyable countries in a game where a period focus is colonial times but It's not quite the case. Unfun part is not that, colonies taking time to establish. It's the limited amount of action we can take.

Besides treasure fleets and the very late game revolutions, there is nothing to do here! I won't even mention 3 native policy buttons; It is not enough. Slavery, pirates states or even wild west themes are missing in a colony era game. There are lots of topics to add as gameplay mechanics before adding different African fetishes and stuff. The focus on colonialism has been lost.

4) Trade Goods

While new things are available for them -as I mentioned- and I think we'll be seen more in future, I still have to say somethings about It. There is something more needed to be done about them. Local strategy bonus was a good start. While I can't come up with a good idea for them. (!) Here is the Idea. There has to be something to improve their use with adding new gameplay mechanic without making It like Victoria 2. Being leader production bonus is not enough.

5) Raid Cost Button

This one is really strange. Because It forces the player to remember -another- time to raid or protect coastline provinces again. You can only know when you can raid by checking every province! It's a heavy work therefore not fun.

Not to mention It's a boring gameplay for the raider and protector. The two parties should only click when the raid cooldown comes and sit idle for years again. I mean come on! Shouldn't be this like privateers mechanic? Where a constant struggle is happening in the seas, one is protecting loot and the other is trying to take It. With RNG events and such could be much more colorful thing.

6) AI Privateer effort is needed

With patches, Privateering is finally a reliable thing to consider. In multiplayer is really a cold war happening out there to protect or loot the trade nodes. I would really love that in SP games as well. Since AI is now pretty good with loans and condottieri, why shouldn't It be better at Privateering and protecting against It?

These things just come up to my head when I encounter them in the game. I believe there are some mechanics needs to be looked into and altered as new gameplay options at peace time and planning. Hope this give you a thought about some real issues with the game. Overall I believe the current game state is good but few things need to change and recent terrain changes completely shock to me.
 
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bbqftw

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Well, problem with combat is more deep-rooted. The introduction of forts basically forced the simplification of combat to doomstack vs doomstack action.

No more looting threats, punishing attrition, and heavy emphasis on manpower management that allowed small nations to crush large ones on their own terms.
 
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I don't really see the big argument for combat width influence and I am fine with the current state of trade goods, but the rest of the points would agree with.
 
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Dakka

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You can add mercenaries nullifying the need for manpower and the ruination of attrition/scorched earth strategies. Made Russia kind of crumby compared to its other great power compatriots
 
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tppytel

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Building spy network and covert options are really fun. The unfun part is I have to track them when they discovered and send them again.
I agree there appear to be fairly simple improvements here. An option to alert you when you've reached a certain point threshold would be great so that you don't accidentally let the timer run longer than you need to and needlessly risk discovery. It could even be implemented so that you can click Fabricate Claim, for example, even before you have the necessary points. Then you would fabricate the claim as soon as you can. In case of discovery, you would immediately begin rebuilding your network as soon as possible. In other words, structure the covert action UI around the objectives you want to accomplish instead of accruing generic points and then selecting those objectives manually.

(Note: Still new... may be missing something obvious.)
 
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bbqftw

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Reason given was that battles were apparently taking too long and reduction in combat width double bonused defending in mountains
 
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5) Raid Cost Button

This one is really strange. Because It forces the player to remember -another- time to raid or protect coastline provinces again. You can only know when you can raid by checking every province! It's a heavy work therefore not fun.

Not to mention It's a boring gameplay for the raider and protector. The two parties should only click when the raid cooldown comes and sit idle for years again. I mean come on! Shouldn't be this like privateers mechanic? Where a constant struggle is happening in the seas, one is protecting loot and the other is trying to take It. With RNG events and such could be much more colorful thing.

I second this one. I bought Mare Nostrum on sale this week and started up as Fezzan, thinking I could have fun with privateering and raiding. The raiding was annoying as hell though. Basically it felt like one time bonus at the start of the game, after that it was useless, as once the modifier was expired other nations would have raided the coast already before I noticed. I wasted time clicking on province after province to see when it would expire again, just to remember it one or two months too late and all eligible province would already have been raided again by another Berber nation. Not a fun mechanic.
 
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bbqftw

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yeah its tolerable as the knights purely because you're the only orthodox raider :>
 
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Reason given was that battles were apparently taking too long and reduction in combat width double bonused defending in mountains

It's almost like target audience of this game is your average MMS (Modern Military Shooter) player with a squeaky voice and foul mouth, who just don't have the patience to wait for the end of the battle.

I'm terrible at the sarcasm. And yea, I don't mock the person which I quoted in this post. I mock Developers.
 
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AI Privateer effort is needed

This is really something i wish to be done
Because now its twice in a month message "We gained a trade CB!" "We lost CB!", and AI privateers node where I hunt with 10-20 heavies with zero profit. Sometimes this message just drives me crazy. :mad:
 
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Combat width or battles need rework. Combat system and battles works quite good, balance, modifiers being very important and all that jazz, while having a doze of RNG. Really good job there. So combat width was a victim. The main problem is in big huge long ass battles where one army from Poland have time to come and turn the tide of the battle in Swiss Alps - this is very annoying lategame. Good example is whole HRE fighting on single mountain for 6+ months long. Removing combat width effect of terrain helps against that - which is great.
- Now they need to reintroduce this feature back somehow - hopefully in next expansion.

Agree about colonization and privateers - it should be good source of income that nations battle for. Atm there's no fight - just a colonization and placing merchants. Lots of potential there. There were full games that just use this theme and they have lots of content.

Trade system, trade goods and war effect on them could be done better or in more detail. Atm we can't really influnce much. Build a building here or there or conquer some stuff and thats it. There's no much brain in building economy in EU4.
 
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How insanely easy it is for institutions to spread and adopt should also be thrown onto the pile - it's especially worse as New World natives, who can adopt almost everything overnight and free of charge, and even off westernized natives at that.
 
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How insanely easy it is for institutions to spread and adopt should also be thrown onto the pile - it's especially worse as New World natives, who can adopt almost everything overnight and free of charge, and even off westernized natives at that.
Yes, it spreads like wildfire and ruins the colonial game
 
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How insanely easy it is for institutions to spread and adopt should also be thrown onto the pile - it's especially worse as New World natives, who can adopt almost everything overnight and free of charge, and even off westernized natives at that.

Based on this comment, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't actually play any New World natives. If you did, you would realise that this feature is one of the few saving graces they actually have to survive/ remain mildly playable, let alone competitive.

New World natives cannot build ships (not even transports), and cannot fabricate claims on neighbouring tribes, not even on rivals. Many earlier patches ago, natives would receive events/missions giving them CBs on rival tribes, but apparently that was "Way too OP" as allegedly claimed by players of Euro colonizing powers who would apparently somehow lose to slightly larger NA native tribal federations. Since the only reliable CB-granting mission natives get anymore is "humiliate rival X" and since the humiliate rival cb does not allow taking provinces, vassalizing, or even releasing nations, they are essentially required to no-cb their neighbours (and are apparently actively encouraged to do so, as evidenced by their low stab-increase costs, especially with the wampum belts idea).

As recently mentioned in a thread on the front page, natives also cannot destroy forts for some bizarre reason, so say goodbye to your economy if heaven help you, you decide to, or accidentally acquire a fortified province from another tribe, a colonizer, or a Mesoamerican.

Natives also cannot colonize farther than 1 province away, and must do so with severely reduced settler growth (due to low tech) and this leads most native games to either incredible boredom spent waiting for colonies to finish, or intense frantic frustration due to constant no-cbing weaker tribes, and somehow attempting to fight off the labyrinthine webs of federations/alliances.

TLDR: The new world, and north of Mexico-North American natives/South American natives have been nerfed into the ground needlessly enough, so please don't take away the only sliver of hope they have left, namely the rapid acquisition of institutions from neighbouring colonizers when reforming, and the subsequent acquisition and embracing of new ones from developing capital provinces sufficiently (2000 MP).
 
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Grand Historian

Pretentious Username | Iaponia Lead Dev
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May 13, 2014
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Based on this comment, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't actually play any New World natives. If you did, you would realise that this feature is one of the few saving graces they actually have to survive/ remain mildly playable, let alone competitive.

No, I do; I've had a blast as both the Inca and Iroqouis in previous versions, but I've since quite playing as them precisely because of so many arbitrary restrictions.

And I don't support many of the stupid or arbitrary restrictions placed on them either - but EU4 is a game that tries to have some bearing to history, and no nation in the history of the world has adopted so much, so quickly, and with no resistance, and there certainly weren't domino-like waves of westernization either.

Finally; new world natives are supposed to be an immense challenge - there is a lot that can and should be done to improve their situation gamewise, but giving them ridiculously easy westernization that ruins both the colonial game for everyone but them and the immersion of it is not the way to go about it. They most certainly should not be more technologically advanced than Asia or even some European countries due to sharing a border with a colonizer for a few months - that is not good gameplay or good history, and takes quite a bit of fun out of playing nations that are supposed to be some of the hardest starts ingame.
 
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