Forgive my username (its old), but some constructive criticisms for Paradox

[CKSucksBadly]

---regarding CK2.

My username was created back in the ancient time when I had a hapless experience playing some count in CK1 (so irrelevant).

I love CK2, really, I think I sank many days and hours into it, and every time it gives me a satisfactory game.

Came back to the game recently playing Harald Hardrade of Norway after a long break from playing it and expanding my horizon with other games.

Initially, I still enjoy it. However - after god knows how many patches, I hope the devs PLEASE can look into the following.

Please allow for a player to leave wars after a certain amount of time has passed. It is incredibly annoying to be dragged into an ally's wars or a crusade and not be able to pass any laws or make any things happen at home for years, yeah decades if a big war comes to a stalemate. It is an unrealistic mechanic (as throughout history, factions have abandoned allies and wars). An opinions penalty hit with your ally or other factions of the same religion/culture would be a satisfactory punishment.

Second, fleets. I like to go to war and conquer territory overseas. But they cost a whole bunch of money to maintain when the whole point of feudalism is that your vassals provide fleets. In Norway we had Leidangen, which gave the king a massive power because he had a great, well equiped fleet at his disposal. In the game as Norway, even the king can't do it cause it'll bankrupt the State! Once summoned they tear a massive hole in your war chest. Going on long Crusades or wars to help allies far away means almost certainly banco rotto. This means I NEVER can afford any mercenaries or building anything unless I am a massive empire who taxes extensively. Unrealistic and ahistorical.

Apart from this, still love the game; when playing it classic (as Catholic faction). I have a bunch of DLC's , but there came a point where I stopped buying them because the game was already complex enough.

If I am wrong in dealing with these two complaints please tell me how and I will stand corrected.

Cheers

 

[Arsonik]

I agree with you on most points. However, it is easy to make money in this game, provided that is the only thing you are focusing on. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of things being reduced in cost. Or to simply increase income from economy buildings perhaps. Not only to allow the player more options in their gameplay (Because let's be realistic, money is primary requisite for a lot of things in CK2) but also the AI. More people buying favors. More people fabricating claims. More people buying retinues. More people using fleets. You get the idea.

Good post.

 

[Knotz]

I'm pretty sure there's a button to just raise your vassals' fleets and it's either much cheaper or doesn't cost you much. I always do that since fleets ARE crazy expensive.

 

[Slayen]

Completely agree on the first part. Getting trapped in a war for years because, due to what ever reason, your ally just can't get enough warscore isn't fun and isn't even realistic.

As for the second, why not just use your vassals fleets rather than your own? You don't pay anything for them. I only ever use my own ships when I'm playing with a mod that reduces the cost down from their vanilla insane levels.

EDIT: Can't you ask one of the forum mods to change your name, btw? I know that's something one can do on some other forums.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Please allow for a player to leave wars after a certain amount of time has passed. It is incredibly annoying to be dragged into an ally's wars or a crusade and not be able to pass any laws or make any things happen at home for years, yeah decades if a big war comes to a stalemate. It is an unrealistic mechanic (as throughout history, factions have abandoned allies and wars). An opinions penalty hit with your ally or other factions of the same religion/culture would be a satisfactory punishment.

Agree
here somewhat, but the circumstances you describe shouldn't happen as often in the first place IF AI movement is fixed again, as it can waste huge time and thus money on chasing tiny armies or breaking sieges for this constantly, being indecisive and IF the AI surrenders again when all its land is occupied by several enemies at the same time, while them having not enough warscore on their own this way. Though even if these are fixed there should probably be an option to leave a war somehow, true.

Second, fleets. I like to go to war and conquer territory overseas. But they cost a whole bunch of money to maintain when the whole point of feudalism is that your vassals provide fleets. In Norway we had Leidangen, which gave the king a massive power because he had a great, well equiped fleet at his disposal. In the game as Norway, even the king can't do it cause it'll bankrupt the State! Once summoned they tear a massive hole in your war chest. Going on long Crusades or wars to help allies far away means almost certainly banco rotto. This means I NEVER can afford any mercenaries or building anything unless I am a massive empire who taxes extensively. Unrealistic and ahistorical.

Disagree.
It doesn't bankrupt the state, only that its costly if you use only your demesne ships.
Also i guess the king in real life didn't own all of them himself and even if, the man onboard were probably not for free
nor was it for free building these ships.

As said, take your vassals ships and you can and should tax your feudal vassals, minimally, but 'none' is not enough.
Also historic and realistic.

EDIT: Can't you ask one of the forum mods to change your name, btw? I know that's something one can do on some other forums.

Usually names can't be changed, but in special snowflake cases if they are truly offensive or critical in some way.
I suppose this qualifies.

True, he should contact a moderator or better post in the Forum Help subforum.

 

[brifbates]

If you don't like how long a war is lasting there are several ways to get out...

1) get off your arse and win it (or sabotage your side's ws with suicidal attacks so you lose it)
2) get depressed and suicide, ending the alliance (you have to re-negotiate pacts when you die)
3) kill someone in the marriage (or friendship) chain enabling the alliance

And, as usual. you can easily avoid it entirely by not allying anyone...

 

[RX2000]

Right, as mentioned above, just raise your vassal's fleets & not your own demesne fleets. You dont pay money for their fleets, you only have to take the negative opinion with them for having their fleets raised.

I totally agree with your first point though. Maybe make it after x number of years you can leave a war with a big negative opinion hit with all rulers, similar to truce breaker, e.g. -25 opinion because "Dishonorably left war he joined" or something.)

Also one thing I would like to see added is a positive opinion modifier to a ruler you help in a war based on how much you contribute to the war. Like the crusades, but at the end you get + opinion to the ruler you helped, maybe like 50% of however much you contributed to the warscore. As it stands now you can be called into your allies' wars, but you can just sit home & not really do anything to help them because unless you care about the war goal nothing is in it for you.....

 

[Orctavius]

I'm pretty sure there's a button to just raise your vassals' fleets and it's either much cheaper or doesn't cost you much. I always do that since fleets ARE crazy expensive.

There is. I always raise my vassals' fleets first and only raise my own ships if I need additional capacity. It saves a lot of money.

 

[Fishman786]

If you don't like how long a war is lasting there are several ways to get out...

1) get off your arse and win it (or sabotage your side's ws with suicidal attacks so you lose it)
2) get depressed and suicide, ending the alliance (you have to re-negotiate pacts when you die)
3) kill someone in the marriage (or friendship) chain enabling the alliance

And, as usual. you can easily avoid it entirely by not allying anyone...

1) Often actually winning the war is very costly though. Fighting a few battles is doable but sieges are a waste of your valuable men.
2) Can you still do that? I didn't think suicide was still possible.
3) That won't end any wars you're currently fighting.

 

[CKSucksBadly]

If you don't like how long a war is lasting there are several ways to get out...

1) get off your arse and win it (or sabotage your side's ws with suicidal attacks so you lose it)
2) get depressed and suicide, ending the alliance (you have to re-negotiate pacts when you die)
3) kill someone in the marriage (or friendship) chain enabling the alliance

And, as usual. you can easily avoid it entirely by not allying anyone...

All of these are very gamey whereas my suggestion is actually pretty realistic. It's kind of crazy actually, that Paradox has completely overseen this core mechanic for like 5 years plus now.

I didn't know about vassals fleets. Makes sense I'll try that.

Thanks for the input. I guess I'll go in the corner over here and stay quiet until I can change my username

 

[CKSucksBadly]

I totally agree with your first point though. Maybe make it after x number of years you can leave a war with a big negative opinion hit with all rulers, similar to truce breaker, e.g. -25 opinion because "Dishonorably left war he joined" or something.)

To be honest I find the "truce breaker" penalty even a bit excessive. Truces were broken now and then. The way it is now you would NEVER EVER do that. The prestige hit is far too great and unproportionate. Especially considering you only take a flat 50 prestive hit for attacking an ally. Which should be even worse. I kind of get why they did this, but... come on.

 

[brifbates]

1) Often actually winning the war is very costly though. Fighting a few battles is doable but sieges are a waste of your valuable men.
2) Can you still do that? I didn't think suicide was still possible.
3) That won't end any wars you're currently fighting.

1) You chose to be their ally, be their ally through thick and thin and da__ the costs
2) Still possible, you just have to have the depressed trait (rt click your portrait and the option is there)
3) It doesn't end the war but it gets you out of it if you aren't the leader (or involved as someone's vassal) as you are no longer allied

All of these are very gamey whereas my suggestion is actually pretty realistic. It's kind of crazy actually, that Paradox has completely overseen this core mechanic for like 5 years plus now.

No more gamey than ignoring a war you are involved in while waiting for your ally to peace out. The vast majority of stalemates dragging on I see are due to armies not being large enough to win sieges. Big brutal wars tend to end pretty quickly with one side or other winning or a bloody wp, they rarely drag on. The ones that drag on are the ones the ai looks at and sees they should win but they aren't due to not winning sieges.

 

[Fishman786]

1) You chose to be their ally, be their ally through thick and thin and da__ the costs
2) Still possible, you just have to have the depressed trait (rt click your portrait and the option is there)
3) It doesn't end the war but it gets you out of it if you aren't the leader (or involved as someone's vassal) as you are no longer allied

1) Not every alliance is an alliance of loyalty though, it might be dishonourable to dishonour an alliance (haha) but the middle ages are dishonourable times full of backstabbing.
2) Right-click the portrait? Didn't know that! I wonder why they hid it there? it used to be a decision in the intrigue panel.
3) I don't think it gets you out of the war either. Just yesterday I divorced my wife during a massive civil war and my ally stayed fighting despite that, which is probably one of the things which saved the war for me. That and the fact that the AI is strategically braindead and decided to march their doomstack all the way through Spain, Morocco and Algeria just to get to my capital...

No more gamey than ignoring a war you are involved in while waiting for your ally to peace out. The vast majority of stalemates dragging on I see are due to armies not being large enough to win sieges. Big brutal wars tend to end pretty quickly with one side or other winning or a bloody wp, they rarely drag on. The ones that drag on are the ones the ai looks at and sees they should win but they aren't due to not winning sieges.

Yeah those little wars tend to drag on and on, but big civil wars are also quite gruesome. With rebel armies coming from all sides and the kingdom divided up like broken glass, the AI is unable to prioritise a sensible strategy and just runs in circles. Clashes between major empires can also last for a very long time too if the winning side suddenly comes to a massive disadvantage (for instance if someone else joins the war).

 

[PK_AZ]

Please allow for a player to leave wars after a certain amount of time has passed. It is incredibly annoying to be dragged into an ally's wars or a crusade and not be able to pass any laws or make any things happen at home for years,

Honestly I do not think that not letting player to leave war is a problem here(well, not the main problem). In my opinion the whole idea that some gameplay elements are blocked when you at war is bad. I mean, logic behind it is clear - you king is commanding forces, he doesn't have time to make party. But I kinda disagree with that logic. Often I'm blocked by some minor wars, that do not need my character attention.

2) Right-click the portrait? Didn't know that! I wonder why they hid it there? it used to be a decision in the intrigue panel.

I think it was a part of the path that added targetted decisions(came with Way of Life I think, where general number of possible targetted decisions was quite big).

 

[Fishman786]

Honestly I do not think that not letting player to leave war is a problem here(well, not the main problem). In my opinion the whole idea that some gameplay elements are blocked when you at war is bad. I mean, logic behind it is clear - you king is commanding forces, he doesn't have time to make party. But I kinda disagree with that logic. Often I'm blocked by some minor wars, that do not need my character attention.

Often the war blocking thing is done in order to stop wars from getting invalidated or otherwise screwed up. Usurping a duchy for instance can't be done if the target is at war because if that was allowed the war might get unravelled in a rather confusing way. Feasts, hunts, Ramadan etc don't make much sense to disallow though.

 

[thekaje]

Yes, some of us have been waiting for them to fix your first problem (which was caused by a patch) for several months now. They are supposedly fixing it, but they're also currently taking all of July off.

All of these are very gamey whereas my suggestion is actually pretty realistic. It's kind of crazy actually, that Paradox has completely overseen this core mechanic for like 5 years plus now.

You used to be able to refuse wars. I don't remember if you could pull out of an ally's war without him agreeing, but I think you could. They changed all this in a patch so that you were forced to respect all alliances and answer all calls to war and you could not betray your ally by reneging on your alliance.

No, I have no idea why they did that. I haven't played the game since that change was made, and supposedly they're going to fix it sometime in August (6? months after the change was made).

 

[hagagaga]

With the number of posts that you've made, why not just create a new account?

 

[CKSucksBadly]

No more gamey than ignoring a war you are involved in while waiting for your ally to peace out. The vast majority of stalemates dragging on I see are due to armies not being large enough to win sieges. Big brutal wars tend to end pretty quickly with one side or other winning or a bloody wp, they rarely drag on. The ones that drag on are the ones the ai looks at and sees they should win but they aren't due to not winning sieges.

If you understood my post, I suggested not ignoring wars, but a new REALISTIC sollution to this problem where you could withdraw your support and forces from the war after a certain time. Everything you suggested (suicide attacks, etc), is just convoluting the issue and, yes, gamey.

 

[brifbates]

If you understood my post, I suggested not ignoring wars, but a new REALISTIC sollution to this problem where you could withdraw your support and forces from the war after a certain time. Everything you suggested (suicide attacks, etc), is just convoluting the issue and, yes, gamey.

And as I said, sitting out wars for a few years then leaving them (which is basically what your proposal amounts to) is just as gamey as anything I proposed as a way to handle your complaint within the current game structure. If you aren't going to fully support an ally's war then you shouldn't ally them in the first place (since I'm fairly sure you don't want them to start having the ai choose to join your war then sit there doing nothing). If you do so anyway then deal with the consequences of that decision.

 

[CKSucksBadly]

And as I said, sitting out wars for a few years then leaving them (which is basically what your proposal amounts to) is just as gamey as anything I proposed as a way to handle your complaint within the current game structure. If you aren't going to fully support an ally's war then you shouldn't ally them in the first place (since I'm fairly sure you don't want them to start having the ai choose to join your war then sit there doing nothing). If you do so anyway then deal with the consequences of that decision.

Dear Lord, do I have to spell it out for you again. Yes, waiting out wars and then quitting them should be possible and it is more realistic than being drawin into to them regardless.

1. I think there should be an option to join allies' wars not automatically get dragged into them as now.
2. If you leave a war or decline to give assistance there should be a greater prestige hit, penalty opinion hit with your main ally (and perhaps co-allies and other similar religion rulers too) and a great chance that the alliance will be dissolved. THAT alone should be the incentive to keep you in the alliance because it is the player's choice whether to or not (thereby more realistic), not just an arbitrary game mechanic. No need to resort to gamey tactics in order to weasel out, just a straight up choice.