Forget the Turks. Someone stop the Germans!

[unmerged(12299)]

I haven't played CK for a while. I installed the newest beta and gave it a go. I have had mixed impressions about the game so far. I do love all the events so far except the province is to far away event, but that is explained already. My problem is with the power of Germany. So far the Germans are the undisputed power in Europe(1150's) and sure historically it was powerful and huge but what I am seeing is ridiculous. Germany has been at war since day 1, 100 years of non stop war. I fought a war with them, I was England, in the 1070's. William was still around. The Germans took Arques, I fought for 20 years or so and the AI never once offered peace. I had a war score of over 190 and only asked to be recognized as the rightful ruler of Arques, no dice. The AI never made peace. Frustrating. He had his vassal armies in the field for 20 years non stop and never had a problem with loyalty . Is this happening to other people? Is this WAD?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The peace system isn't working as I would like to see either. But if you want him to accept your proposal take all his demesne every offer you make then will be successfull.

What I have done, is removed the kingtitles of Italy and Burgundy from the german king. That way breakaway provinces from that kingdoms (duchy of provence or Toscany f.e.) will not automatically ask to become vassal again.

This makes germany a bit weaker.

And since Heinrich von Franken wasn't emperor of the HRE in 1066 yet, I also find some historical justification for it

 

[Hrafn]

How bad is the peace system? Would it be worth going back to an earlier Beta (and if so which) in order to get a playable game?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The peace system isn't that worse, when you know how to use it to your advantage.

The best thing is to not dow a powerfull king (Germany) directly but dow a vassal first, also if it is possible dow them when they are already entangled in another war. And always go for his demesne, just defeating his armies has very little effect.

The peacesystem isn't something from the beta's but I believe has stayed the same in all the patches so there is no use going back to a previous patch.

Also the peace system doesn't make the game unplayable, you just have to know what you are doing.

 

[SecondReich]

I love the peace system in CK. Much better than EUII and HOI and Vic, because when the peace gets to 100%, they don't mess around and turn down your proposal. At 100% they have to accept it, which is really the way it should have always been.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The main problem is to get 100% against major powers, which can be very troublesome when the enemy has a large demesne that is spread across the map.

 

[unmerged(12299)]

It is difficult to overwhelm the super powers but I found that concentrating on his vassals to be the best way to go. I pick them off one at a time and this really weakens them. I just wish that the AI would be better at understanding futility of some fights. If you beat the AI consistently for 20 years you'd think that they would give up and let you have the province, especially if it isn't even remotely close to them. IT IS CALLED A STALEMATE FOR A REASON!

 

[SecondReich]

Yeah, but demesne spread over the map isn't that big of a deal. Usually, when this occurs I just wait a few generations, until (as they unvariably do) the king gives away most of his demesne.

I once played a WC game, where Byzantium had demesne in Greece, Turkey, and Middle East. I just waited, and eventually they got down to about three provinces, and boom...bye bye Byzantium.

 

[unmerged(12299)]

Sometimes they won't give up the province, like the German King and the province of Arques. I was at war with him over that province off and on for nearly 100 years and he refused to give it up. It was just to good of a province for him to give away. In all that time he never went below 10 provinces in his demesne. He had nearly unlimited manpower as he just crushed everyone who opposed him and made them his vassal. I finally cheated and forced him to give it to me. It was very frustrating.

 

[unmerged(25476)]

every hear of the 100 years war... France and England were technacly at war for over a century... so AI's not accepting peace proposals isn't without precident

 

[qvcatullus]

Were they 'technically' at war the entire time? I'm not sure what the era-appropriate technical definition of war would be. There was certainly a level of hostilities between the two countries/monarchs for the period, but the actual full-scale fighting was intermittent. More or less like when my Spain in-game has an ongoing rivalry with France, and we occasionally actually declare war over the claims.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

every hear of the 100 years war... France and England were technacly at war for over a century... so AI's not accepting peace proposals isn't without precident

How wars and peace are delt with in CK has nothing to do with reality. f.e. if France would have conquered all the lands of the English kings on the mainland and even a province or 2 in England itself, England would have made peace. While in CK England will fight through if the king has a province in the Holy Land or something far away.

So yes their was a 100-years war in the middle ages, but the 2 countries weren't fighting constantly for 100 years. So that there is a precedent this has in my opinion nothing to do with the game and how the AI deals with warscores.

Another example is f.e. the city of Milan succesfully fought against the German emperor in CK this of course will not happen, Milan will be overrun in notime.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

England and France were at war with the vassal of the other but not long against each other (at least not hundred years)

To Milan: Milan had at this time a very strong castle and what is more important is that the german king had not that much power. He had not the troops to fight them. The problem with CK is that the HRE is too powerful because they get all the troops they want to get (in history the german kings had to ask their vassals and the vassals often said no) and have also a own demesne (what is also not historical)
i.e. when I want to get Venice as Germany, I claim their titles, declare war, ask Bavaria, Styria, Carinthia, Austria etc. to give me their troops and get them. So I don't even use my own troops.
In history when the Emperor of HRE would have asked them the most would have said no, and it would have taken years to get the troops, in CK I crush them in a few months.

But that's okay, CK is not historical, it's a what-if scenario and that's great.It makes it more human controled.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

every hear of the 100 years war... France and England were technacly at war for over a century... so AI's not accepting peace proposals isn't without precident

There were two periods of peace that I know of 1360 to 1369 and 1396 to 1415

 

[unmerged(44072)]

On the other hand, while CK realms may theoretically be at war for long periods of time, sometimes there's not much actual fighting is going on.

 

[Quift]

C'mon. in my wars against germany as italy/burgundy (or heading that way) i had two fight four separate wars.

the russian theatre to get one province in tha baltics, aykshyats

the middle east, he tried to take jerusalem and antioch, I tried to take chairo and alexandria, the west front for luxembourg and a lot of demesne over there, and the southern front, bavaria and northern italy.

Nice to see history repeat itself... and to such a close degree. and only 700years off.