Force Fleets to Stop "Hiding in Port" - How is this Still a Problem?

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Unit745

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This has been suggested before, but given it remains a problem, I would like to bring it up again. I have also scoured the game files for several hours but was unable to find anything that readily suggested I could fix this issue myself.

It is well-known that the "hiding from stronger fleets" property of trade fleets during wartime is technically a feature, but I would argue it is a poorly conceived one. There is no way for the player to force the fleet to do its mission anyways. Indeed, in searching for solutions online, I have seen screenshots where large trade fleets were hiding in port, having been set to 'bold,' while the entire enemy alliance has zero ships. This really needs to be reworked, as the current implementation is at best comedic and at worst frustrating.

Many players already question the value proposition of having naval superiority versus, e.g., having an extra 20k army for the land battle. This hiding problem exacerbates that value problem. A nation with naval superiority, in theory, should be able to maintain its trade fleet presence while either sinking or forcing into port its enemies' trade fleets. Combined with blockades, a nation with naval superiority should be able to maintain its trade revenues while greatly reducing its enemies' revenues. During wartime, this could be the difference between my taking zero loans and my enemy taking ten. Unfortunately, trade fleets lose all purpose during wartime. No matter what I do (bold, never repair, do not return to port during wartime, attach a bunch of galleys to the fleet), the fleet will simply hide in port. Rather than have a large fleet sit in port all day, I chop up the fleet and scatter them around my war fleets. This is not necessary, not optimal, and not what I want to do. But it is either that or sit in port all day. I cannot use this fleet for its intended purpose.

I would therefore suggest that players be able to force a trade fleet (and any other fleet mission for which this is a problem) to perform its mission anyways. If my naval superiority enabled me to blockade all the enemies' fleets in their ports, my trade fleet is completely safe. Let me use it. Just because the enemy *has* a superior fleet does not mean that superior fleet will actually *be* a threat.

I think the best way to go about this would be that, when a fleet is set to 'bold,' it will always perform its mission. If a player wants it to return during wartime, he can either set it to 'cautious' or enable the 'return to port during wartime' option.


I paid a great many ducats to have a trade fleet. Let me use it when it matters most.
 
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Unit745

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@Blackwhitecavias

Yes, there are numerous settings when managing fleets. The most notable are,
Repair threshold (when to repair)
Aggressiveness (cautious or bold)
A button to toggle returning to port during war

My issue is, even when using the most aggressive settings (never repair, bold aggressiveness, do not return to port during war), my fleets of light ships will often refuse to leave the port. It seems that it does depend on the relative strength - I was able to get a trade fleet to leave port by ballooning the number of light ships in the fleet. Unfortunately, maintaining fleets of 20+ light ships can be rather expensive and defeat the whole purpose of protecting trade in the first place when fleet maintenance ends up costing more than the gains from trade or privateering.


@Matihood1

I honestly don't know if it is a bug or not. I know for certain this 'feature' or 'bug' has been around for a long, long time. I distinctly remember reading posts from 2015 - 5 years ago! - in which people are asking for help on this same issue. My assumption is it is a feature, but is just a poorly conceived one. Useful for the AI, perhaps, since the AI might not have a proper way of knowing how 'secure' the shipping lanes are, but a hindrance for the player.

My trade fleet is indeed too weak to combat some of the enemies' fleets without losing or taking heavy losses. In this sense, hiding makes sense. However, the trade fleet does not seem to understand that all these scary enemy fleets are locked in their ports, blockaded in by my overwhelming war fleets. So while my trade fleet would lose in a naval battle, my other fleets are ensuring such a battle never happens.

This behavior - the fact that on an individual fleet basis it makes some sense, but on a global basis it does not - causes me to believe this is in fact a feature. My assumption is that 'cautious' and 'bold' differ only in the 'power mismatch' required for a fleet to be 'confident enough' in its battle-ability. I know some other games actually allow the player to set a custom power-mismatch for fleets they delegate to the AI. For example, I might tell my fleet to only engage if they overpower the enemy fleet by at least a 2:1 margin. I assume 'cautious' and 'bold' are just two predefined settings.


Unfortunately, this is all speculation on my part. Despite searching for hours in the game files, I was unable to find anything I could change that suggests my hypothesis is correct.
 

Unit745

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Sorry to double post, but I just did a quick test in game, and I have to believe this is a bug.

Note I am playing a modded game (extended timeline, most notably), but to my knowledge, none of my mods affect the underlying naval AI in any way.


In the screenshot, there are two fleets out at sea. The 5-size fleet (selected), of 5 light ships, is protecting the English Channel trade node. It is set to bold. The 20-size fleet (mouse hovering over), of 20 light ships, with a 2-star admiral, is protecting the Lubeck (modern day Denmark) trade node. It is also set to bold. Not shown in the screenshot, that little slashed-eye informs me the fleet is currently hiding from enemy fleets that are 'too strong' - the fleet is currently making its way to one of my ports to do this 'hiding.'

To create this test, I declared war on a nation encapsulating most of modern day France (I was not at war with anyone else prior to this). It called as allies a nation just below it in modern day Spain, and two other nations further south in modern day northern Africa. It is interesting, then, that the smaller, admiral-less fleet is willing to protect the English Channel, which is near two nations of which I am at war, while my much larger, decent admiral fleet is unwilling to protect Lubeck, which is much farther from my enemies.


Given this test, I would probably have to post this as a bug report.
 

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