For this Hoi, can troops defect and fight along side with another country?

[Punderland]

When troops under encirclement or low morale, histroy does tell us they defect or flee. Then will it be possible that we can capture and welcome them to our armies. Not only land units, maybe naval(ships suffering from very heavy mechanical damage) or air forces(out of fuel on the way of going to a friendly base) too. As far as I know this was how CPC won the war in Chinese civil war. She did this by being the friend of people and make herself popular. I do hope this can be a turning point for CPC in HOI3 too. Maybe paradox can make them not listening to the superior under fiece stiuation too!

 

[Kernest]

Some sort of defecting would be nice, but i doubt any British would choose to join German army all of the sudden, nor would German accept them.
Chinese question is logical because it´s Civil war, and this could work well in Spain too.
Maybe if you add loyalty banner "against" some countries, so that how likely they are to give up and join that enemy.
And about capturing ships and such, it can already be done (but usually i just get small meaningless destroyers or such), but i´d like if in the navy and/or air forces having 3 bars = org, eguipment strenght and manpower strenght. You could capture ship in full condition if you sneak in at night and capture port ASAP, but you would have to kill the crew which would never join you. In HoI2 this would lead to strenght dropping low but i´d like to see so that only ship crew needs to be trained again.

 

[Punderland]

P.S. Maybe adding the race system of troops will be good. Defecting troops with similar race as the enemy country(the one that they are defecting to) will be more acceptable and loyal, vice versa. This would be great if it does really happen in game.

 

[Darth Tracid]

there will be no race in any form. ever. please read the forum rules and do not discuss banned topics anymore or I will be forced to take further steps.

 

[Delta107]

This feature might have a value for civil wars. But defecting will be present in the game through shattering.

 

[unmerged(112153)]

I cant tell of any situation were an entire division (or army) would suddenly switch side.

They were enemies so they will be threated like that, theres no way a division will simply switch their badge and put on a new one and go on fighting (like it did before) towards the other side.

Soldiers who did turned side got into the system of questions and tests to prove they would be loyal (in a way), but they would never be in the very same division and situation as before they surrendered...
Those who did past those questions and tests were nearly allways diverted allover for a job that would fit them (like guarding their homeland for the new goverment).


In the current HoI2 system you allready gain manpower, resources and IC by taking the enemies land so in a way this capture of enemy troops is allready included like that, this might be a minor bonus that grows overtime but its pretty realistic (more realistic then a division suddenly switching side).

What the current HoI2 system doesnt have is enemy material that can be used like captured artillery... or a good example all the captured trucks that Rommel used in Africa to make his troops more mobile.

 

[Punderland]

there will be no race in any form. ever. please read the forum rules and do not discuss banned topics anymore or I will be forced to take further steps.

Sry,let's say it as nationality. I did't pay much attention on the tradition here since I am not a local European. And I earnestly telling I am sry. And it will never happen again.

 

[Porkman]

shattering isn't defecting. The original poster makes a good point (however ungracefully) that in Civil wars, especially towards the end many troops would switch sides.

While the story of the Korean soldiers who turned up manning the Atlantic Wall is kind of quirky, there was never a situation where division size forces switched sides except in the case of Civil War.

I tend to do this in my Nat. China games where I herd the troops of the Chinese minors into non vp provinces so I inherit their armies upon annexation.

The system is flawed though because it needs the "inherit" command and only fires once the opponent is annexed. In China, (and Spain to a lesser extent) divisions would switch sides if they were surrounded and low on supplies.

 

[Porkman]

I cant tell of any situation were an entire division (or army) would suddenly switch side.

They were enemies so they will be threated like that, theres no way a division will simply switch their badge and put on a new one and go on fighting (like it did before) towards the other side.

Go pick up any book about the Chinese Civil war and then revise this post.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Well, in some respects this can happen, say I'm the USSR, march int Bulgaria, and they become my puppet, several of Bulgaria divisions will still carry on fighting against me.

Try it out, invade a minor from an alliance, puppet them, and a few divisions will stay on the opposing side.

In the respect your talking about, it didn't really happen in the numbers HOI works in ... Maybe a boost to manpower, but not divisions switiching sides ...

 

[Alex_brunius]

P.S. Maybe adding the race system of troops will be good. Defecting troops with similar race as the enemy country(the one that they are defecting to) will be more acceptable and loyal, vice versa. This would be great if it does really happen in game.

Race is banned.
Nationality is not (which im assuming is what your meaning here).

You simply need to take a little more care when discussing WW2 then Victoria because there are alot more sensetive and recent events involved here.

 

[Punderland]

Race is banned.
Nationality is not (which im assuming is what your meaning here).

You simply need to take a little more care when discussing WW2 then Victoria because there are alot more sensetive and recent events involved here.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[unmerged(134131)]

... Maybe a boost to manpower, but not divisions switiching sides ...

that's a good way to simulate that:
4 polish division in french army in 1940, and i guess some polish brigade in english army.
Leclerc's 2nd armored division has lot of spanish republican in its rank...

 

[unmerged(56754)]

that's a good way to simulate that:
4 polish division in french army in 1940, and i guess some polish brigade in english army.
Leclerc's 2nd armored division has lot of spanish republican in its rank...

But they didn't switch sides

This will be handled via government in exile, Polish contribution ... Polish soldiers weren't fighting the French, had their moral broken and then faught for then french

Foreign volutneers I guess you could argue are abstracted, and the daily increase includes some of these volunteers, I would however like a system that made the number of volunteers increase for different reasons, such as Republican Spanish after loosing the civil war, or Commonwealth soldiers in WWII.

 

[unmerged(112153)]

Go pick up any book about the Chinese Civil war and then revise this post.

If they consider to add any of this for the "game" it should either be for all sides or none otherwise theres no intrest.

Now for captured material thats surely an option cause this happened in many ways often vastly.

For troops and divisions however... its totally diffrent troughout all the wars and fronts, so allot more complex to even consider it in the game.

 

[Punderland]

Let me give an example in statistic data
1936: CPC: 30 thousands men, Nat. China: 4 millions
1945: CPC: 0.25 millions men, Nat. China: 3.5 millions
1948: CPC: 5 millions men, Nat. China: 0.5 millions

Most of the CPC's men were come from defecting Nat. China since wages and supplies of Nat. China was declining drastically and the ideal of Communism fit the starving peasants and soilders. This is real when u look it up in books.(Maybe the data are not that precise but much less like it)

 

[trybald]

While the story of the Korean soldiers who turned up manning the Atlantic Wall is kind of quirky, there was never a situation where division size forces switched sides except in the case of Civil War.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

An unit made up of Soviet POWs. They defected to the Soviet side in 1945. Or at least they tried to defect.

 

[unmerged(41034)]

4 polish division in french army in 1940, and i guess some polish brigade in english army.
Leclerc's 2nd armored division has lot of spanish republican in its rank

I would also like to add the Ukranian volunteers to the german armies.


I hope im not stepping on any toes here, but some events that the TRP added really improve the gameplay


I would like to see events where some of these units are added, gives flavor to the game, and allows some sort of morale boost to conquered nations.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

4 polish division in french army in 1940, and i guess some polish brigade in english army.
Leclerc's 2nd armored division has lot of spanish republican in its rank

I would also like to add the Ukranian volunteers to the german armies.


I hope im not stepping on any toes here, but some events that the TRP added really improve the gameplay


I would like to see events where some of these units are added, gives flavor to the game, and allows some sort of morale boost to conquered nations.

Those aren't examples of complete divisions switching sides but rather volunteer units fighting for another country, which was quite common in WWII.

 

[Volt]

I think this issue is best left to events adding manpower to represent volunteers. A whole division defecting is not very realistic, and it would not be easily incorporated into another country's army organisation.