• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.454
1.252
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Havent had time to read the whole thread, I love FTM so far its a major improvement. I do have one small nitpick and would really like a small change. I used to just select provinces and hold down the "f" key to build infrastructure. Now if you hold down the "f" key it opens the find province window. That makes mass infrastructure building a pita, can we please make the find province window a different key stroke?
Did you make a bug report of this? It sounds like a good idea.
 

Sandberg95

Eirish
66 Badges
Jul 8, 2010
23
0
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
But what about the politics? I'm thinking about getting FtM today. But not if the politics is changed to a deeper level and added the way of creating coups they have talked so warmly about.
 

jaava

First Lieutenant
8 Badges
Aug 11, 2006
209
134
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
I must say i'm impressed. I usually play with my old laptop (doesn't actually even fill the minimum system requirements). It still isn't super fast but now it runs really smoothly. Also some small changes really make the difference. I particularly like the improvements in scrolling and zooming. I'll do more testing.
 

GAGA Extrem

Per Ardua Ad Astra
External QA
121 Badges
Mar 19, 2004
11.469
4.989
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Havent had time to read the whole thread, I love FTM so far its a major improvement. I do have one small nitpick and would really like a small change. I used to just select provinces and hold down the "f" key to build infrastructure. Now if you hold down the "f" key it opens the find province window. That makes mass infrastructure building a pita, can we please make the find province window a different key stroke?
Already reportet.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?544924-FTM-Hotkey-quot-f-quot-binding
:D
 

ltccone

Field Marshal
63 Badges
Feb 2, 2004
4.779
1.073
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
No.

Then we'd get more budgets for the next game, and have the next game more likely to be more polished.

That is why I preordered FTM, downloded and installed it last night, even though I really won't be able to put any time in the game until the weekend.

TANSTAAFL
 

Dakk

2nd lieutenant [inactive]
33 Badges
Dec 8, 2004
2.054
58
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Semper Fi
  • The Showdown Effect
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Dungeonland
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
Actually, pre 2.04 SF they had 3000 after that they had (have?) 1000. The biggest change is that because of it they are no longer considered frontline brigades and will shatter automatically if in a battle without frontline brigades.
I don't think they actually shatter, but they surely do retreat instantly.

Havent had time to read the whole thread, I love FTM so far its a major improvement. I do have one small nitpick and would really like a small change. I used to just select provinces and hold down the "f" key to build infrastructure. Now if you hold down the "f" key it opens the find province window. That makes mass infrastructure building a pita, can we please make the find province window a different key stroke?
Reported.

About the HQ-brigades: AFAIK, somewhere during the betas for SF, they got their strength lowering from 3,000 to 1,000, while still staying frontline brigades (the only one consisting of only 1,000 men). This was, IMHO, i nice compromise between the ´None-combat-HQ´-camp and those who like to augment their HQs to hold Corps-assets (i´d really like you not to start the discussion of the legitimacy of one or the other POV, please). Was this really changed? Some people (incidentally known to be of the ´none-Hq-camp´) claim that HQ arent frontline brigades - i dont think that´s true - hence i am asking...
It looks like HQ can't fight at all no. There is however some bug or another going on there, as sometimes fight will initiate with HQ's and you fight against a 0 width enemy (I've had 0 vs 0 fights...) for a few hours. I read someone reporting it but can't find it.

To all of those complaining on the clicky-sounds, and listing it as a minus - it's obviously a bug. :) Also, it's reported.
 

Think Tank

Colonel
35 Badges
Aug 21, 2009
984
5.728
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Empire of Sin
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
So far:-
Correct checksum
Nice smooth silky map scroll.
CTD upon exiting theatres :- Runtime error of some sort - R6025 virtual function call.

E: Thanks comsubpac hope it's fixed on friday
 
Last edited:

OrisJ

Casimir V Jagiellon
118 Badges
Oct 28, 2009
34
4
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • For the Motherland
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
Love the new camera, and the game seems to be running much faster. Just finished my first game with an axis Switzerland. Ended the game in late '45 because there was nothing left to do since I had no ports and couldn't build boats. Here's how the game went.

Hands off games bore me, so I did basically cheat to become a Fascist Republic and join the Axis by creating a custom event, because I was getting impatient waiting for Germany to coup me after they raised the National Socialist's party organization and popularity to be 2x larger than the original party's, Social Democrats. It probably would have been much more satisfying to just wait for the coup to happen, but I wanted to help in the invasion of France. (On another note, I also found out Switzerland has zero National Socialist ministers, but does have exactly enough fascist/paternal autocrat ministers to fill each political position, which is why I made myself a fascist republic rather than NS.)

So, WW2 starts. Germany takes out Poland very quickly. Then I noticed France had abandoned a few provinces on the Maginot line :( to protect their border with me, which led to Germany crushing any resistance that remained on the Maginot. Oh, and they destroyed Belgium & the Netherlands as well. I took all of Southern France with my tiny, undermanned army. Hitler rewarded me by giving it all to Vichy France and leaving me with nothing. Oh well, no problem. I sat around in Switzerland for a while before I decide I might be able to help Italy in Greece. That was until I looked over and noticed they were already destroying the last of Greece's army in Athens.

Italy also took Gibraltar (even if Italy had done nothing but this the whole game, I would've been impressed) and pulled off some sort of miraculous blitzkrieg across North Africa, right up to Persia (who had been forced into exile by the UK - I assume that's where the majority of their Africa/Middle East armies had been). Then, Italy starts to get hammered by the entire UK army from India, and their army that had been in Persia. They get pushed all the way back to the Suez Canal before they're able to halt the UK counter-attack. Then, I get some wonderful news - it's time for Barbossa!

I decide the best I could do with my little army is support the northern front and try to help out Finland, who is quickly getting destroyed by the Soviet Union. I soon begin to think this may have been a mistake, because while the northern front is advancing steadily (clearly because the Soviets fear the might of the Swiss army), the central front only made it to Minsk before stopping, and the southern front only managed to take Bessarabia and little else.

To make a long story short, I managed to break through Soviet resistance, with the help of german troops, took Leningrad, and fought all the way to Arkhangelsk, cutting off the Soviet army in Finland. Hungary's entire army seems to be dedicated to helping Finland, who barely managed to survive at all. Cut off from supply, the Soviet troops in Finland are all destroyed in a few months. I redeploy my army to the central front with the Soviet Union, because it had started to fail. There were very little Axis troops here, as they all seemed to be concentrated in either the south or the massive northern front I had opened up. I stood my ground at Minsk and weathered the onslaught of Soviet troops. My manpower is at zero again. German troops finally realize that letting the central front fall probably wouldn't be a good idea, so they send some help and push the Soviets away from Minsk. And by away I mean about three-four provinces before sending half those troops back to the north.

Then I noticed that perhaps their dedication to advancing in the north had paid off - they were one province away from Moscow. I redeploy all my troops there, and break the stalemate with my low-strength troops who have no manpower left to reinforce them. Barbossa complete. The Soviets are defeated. Time to go home and relax!

Ha ha, a man can dream, right? It seems the USA has decided to invade France... a few months ago. And no one noticed. Almost as if they knew I saw their invasion (And we would've gotten away with it if it weren't for you blasted Swiss!), they liberated France, and a few days later they liberated Lux, Belgium and Netherlands as well. The bad news is that there are only a handful of garrison divisions slowing them down. The other bad news is that they're about to take Bern, my capital. Also, I still have zero manpower. The good news is that the entire German army, which surely had just gained quite a lot of experience destroying the Soviets, was on its way to invade France, Lux, Belgium and the Netherlands... again.

My forces finish redeploying to my new capital just in time. Over half of Switzerland has been captured. I mount a brave, foolish, hopeless defense. Just as they're about to take the last of my VP's, the Germans show up. I also gain the Veteran Army effect. The Germans do little in Switzerland other than prevent my surrender to the Allies. I have to retake most of my provinces myself, which slowly succeeds as the Italians are keeping the Allies occupied only a few provinces away to my south, while Germany has reconquered Netherlands and Belgium. Soon, they conquer Paris again, but France still doesn't surrender. Italy has taken all French holdings in North Africa, and I finally notice Japan has taken over just about everything in Asia, including all of India, China, the Philippines, and Indonesia. Persia has been liberated by Italy (or maybe it was Japan?). I also notice some troops from Siam/Thailand (that puppet next to Indochina) in Europe, helping to retake France. That must have been a long walk.

Eventually, the Allies are pushed back out of France. German army is redeployed to the Eastern Border with the Soviet Union. Over the next year or so, the USA launches a few major reinvasions of France, which continue on for a few weeks unopposed before the German army gets there from the border with the Soviet Union. This happens about four times before the US either ran out of troops or just gave up because Germany finally decided to garrison all those ports. I notice Norway still hasn't been invaded by Germany. North Africa belongs to the Axis. Asia belongs to the Axis. Guam has been taken by Japan, as have several other Pacific islands. Okinawa was taken by the US, but they didn't seem to do much else - all their attention was probably focused on getting beat up by Germany.

It was at this point I ended the game. There was no conceivable way for the Allies or Comintern to win, but the Axis was also sitting around doing nothing. (Japan might have been having some sort of huge naval war with the US, but I didn't check because it didn't seem to matter at this point)

I loaded up as a few different countries to check on manpower, army composition and such. Germany had 560~ brigades (I think it's brigades that it shows in the Statistics menu, and not divisions). The US had 300~ and the UK had 100~. The Soviet Union still had just under 500, which actually surprised me. I even created a custom event to force the SU to declare war on Germany again, but they were quickly annexed by Germany. Their 500 divisions were no match for both Japan and Germany.

It was a fun game, but it does seem the German AI still doesn't know how to prepare for or respond to an invasion in the west while it is fighting in Barbossa. If the Soviet Union had held out for another month or two, the Allies probably would have marched straight into Berlin nearly unopposed. And while it was impressive that the US launched so many invasions, they often had no troops ready to defend against the approaching German army. They seemed to be focused on getting to VPs as fast as they could rather than making a solid invasion. If the US had properly defended each border province after they had liberated France, Belgium, and Netherlands, and continued to send more troops, the allies most likely would have won.


Overall first impression: I love it, but I think the AI needs some work.
 
Last edited:

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.454
1.252
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Nice AAR!
IMHO the ability of an ai-controlled country like the UK to maintain proper garrisons in North Africa and India still needs working on. It makes the UK interesting to play in FTM, but still too easy to defeat.
 

squid881

Sergeant
16 Badges
Dec 27, 2010
89
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
It's a good game so far, but playing as Hungary I've noticed a few annoyances.
1. KDNP (Ruling party) popularity starts out EXTREMELY low in 1936. It's an authoritarian state, but such incredibly low popularity makes me uneasy. I managed to get it up to 40% by 1937, but it's still not good because that should make the country ripe for a coup, maybe by the Social Conservatives? I don't know though, I'm not an expert on the coup system yet.
2. Very frequent crashes to desktop.
3. It looks like the military units are mislabeled at the Corps and Army level. The corps are labelled "állandó hadsereg" and the armies are labeled "hadtest" when historically it seems armies were "hadsereg" and corps "hadtest." I'm not Hungarian, though, and I don't know the Hungarian language, but still, there it is.
(Edit)4. Not just for Hungary here, and this seems to have always been the case, but I find I need to rename all of my units from "infantry regiment" to "inf brigade" in order to get units numbered properly. Personally, I don't like having a 1st infantry regiment and a 1st inf brigade. I think the idea is confusing; one should either use regiments or brigades, not both, and if one uses both, brigades should be larger. In this case, they're the same in combat, but labeled differently. What's the point?
 

unmerged(243229)

Recruit
1 Badges
Dec 28, 2010
5
0
  • Semper Fi
And then there are those of us out there that choose not to purchase something until we review it. I certainly wouldn't buy a car without test driving it. There will always be a subset of the population that is foolish with their money and will blindly spend it, and to that subset, we say, "it's your money."

In contrast to your statement that those that buy the game early, bugs and all, "support" the development of a good product: check your premises, my friend. For if your logic is such, and my logic is that if I don't buy a buggy product perhaps the developer will try to improve the product in order to win more business (and my business), which do you think actually occurs in the real world?

Buying a buggy product, particularly given a history of buggy releases, only encourages and rewards such behavior.
 

unmerged(243229)

Recruit
1 Badges
Dec 28, 2010
5
0
  • Semper Fi
"in the long run, we'll all be dead" J. Keynes
Time enjoying life (and a game, as long as it is part of life) is invaluable. That in itself should be enough to pay 5 bucks more and not wait anymore...

As an economics major and MBA student, I can safely say that this Keynes quote is used time and time again to refute actual logic. In the long run, you're right, we'll all be dead - all the more reason to reward gaming companies that put out finished, polished products - Valve, Blizzard, etc.
 

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.454
1.252
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
I'm going to petition for P'dox to introduce a "yawn" emoticon one of these days.

Just to respond to the point, however: Blizzard has many times the staff and many more times the income of Paradox. And yet somehow, despite all of these advantages, their games too have bugs when they're first released. At least, that's what I would judge from reading their forums.
 

unmerged(243229)

Recruit
1 Badges
Dec 28, 2010
5
0
  • Semper Fi
I'm going to petition for P'dox to introduce a "yawn" emoticon one of these days.

Just to respond to the point, however: Blizzard has many times the staff and many more times the income of Paradox. And yet somehow, despite all of these advantages, their games too have bugs when they're first released. At least, that's what I would judge from reading their forums.

And how do you think Blizzard become so large and acquired such a staff, Kriegsspieler? By releasing buggy products?
 

Dakk

2nd lieutenant [inactive]
33 Badges
Dec 8, 2004
2.054
58
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Semper Fi
  • The Showdown Effect
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Dungeonland
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
And then there are those of us out there that choose not to purchase something until we review it. I certainly wouldn't buy a car without test driving it. There will always be a subset of the population that is foolish with their money and will blindly spend it, and to that subset, we say, "it's your money."

In contrast to your statement that those that buy the game early, bugs and all, "support" the development of a good product: check your premises, my friend. For if your logic is such, and my logic is that if I don't buy a buggy product perhaps the developer will try to improve the product in order to win more business (and my business), which do you think actually occurs in the real world?

Buying a buggy product, particularly given a history of buggy releases, only encourages and rewards such behavior.

As an economics major and MBA student, I can safely say that this Keynes quote is used time and time again to refute actual logic. In the long run, you're right, we'll all be dead - all the more reason to reward gaming companies that put out finished, polished products - Valve, Blizzard, etc.

And those were you very first two posts ever? On a game you've never played? In the words of Krigesspieler - "yawn".

I own the game, and I like it.
 

unmerged(243229)

Recruit
1 Badges
Dec 28, 2010
5
0
  • Semper Fi
I'm going to petition for P'dox to introduce a "yawn" emoticon one of these days.

Just to respond to the point, however: Blizzard has many times the staff and many more times the income of Paradox. And yet somehow, despite all of these advantages, their games too have bugs when they're first released. At least, that's what I would judge from reading their forums.


Also Kriegsspieler, it's much too nice of a day here in Madison to be yawning ;)