For the love of god, lower the coring costs.

[Denkt]

Conquest is really cheap for the power gotten. The only thing is that people wan't a enormous empire with maxed techs and all ideas filled at the same time. For the cost of a whole idea group you can core the provinces of starting England, that is quite a conquest.

 

[bbqftw]

western tech problems - "help the provinces I conquer are too damn rich"

 

[Twoflower]

Liguria, by virtue of the trade node changes, is now perhaps the most valuable province in the whole game. Coring that for roughly half of what you pay for an idea or one tech level is not much. Unless you are already hugely powerful, owning a cored Liguria is without much of a doubt more valuable than one administrative idea or one tech level.
Coring costs for Muscovy's traditional targets for expansion are irrelevant to this discussion, because they are not nearly on the level of a North Italian province.
I know that history is not necessarily a compelling argument for game design decisions, however in my humble opinion, it is not necessarily bad game design if the game actually gives a Spanish, French or Austrian player a reason to think twice about whether to annex Genoa or to keep them as a vassal, as Spain pretty much did historically.

TLDR: For the love of god, please DON'T lower the coring costs. They seem fine in 1.12.

 

[Denkt]

And in late game you will be able to core/annex each development for only 5 points and even cheaper with reductions.

 

[brtzknf]

Terrible example, since Muntenia province already cost 280 ADM to core under the old regime, and you would have to be cheesing every conceivable source of reduction to get that figure below 160.

I'm paying like 600 points to core Wallachia after annexing it with one claimed province - in no way was that even close to that before

I get that it has a province more now - and it maybe it got boosted development wise, don't know. But this seems exessively high

 

[juckil]

I think they should put claims back at -25% cost, at the minute they seem useless other than just getting a CB.
Sure, it means that you won't pay diplomatic points on the province if you have a core on it, but who cares about bird mana anyway?
And yes, it will mean you get more AE if the provinces you take are unclaimed, but 90% of the time you get caught claiming something anyway, so getting claims will just increase the AE.

 

[Aries666]

And in late game you will be able to core/annex each development for only 5 points and even cheaper with reductions.

It appears the best approach is to expand by vassals early, actually behave like a feudal kingdom, transitioning to more direct conquest as tech progress and your state becomes more centralised.

 

[grommile]

I think they should put claims back at -25% cost, at the minute they seem useless other than just getting a CB.

That's... kind of the intention, perhaps?

Sure, it means that you won't pay diplomatic points on the province if you have a core on it, but who cares about bird mana anyway?

People who want to keep the LD of their vassals manageable (remember, +5% LD per level of DIP tech deficit). People who want to annex vassals / integrate PUs. People who are currently buying a diplomatic idea group.

 

[brtzknf]

It appears the best approach is to expand by vassals early, actually behave like a feudal kingdom, transitioning to more direct conquest as tech progress and your state becomes more centralised.

Afaik diplo annex costs were increased considerably as well

 

[Aries666]

Afaik diplo annex costs were increased considerably as well

Yes but burning dip points early is preferable to adm points as you need adm to unlock ideas.

 

[roman566]

Afaik diplo annex costs were increased considerably as well

Seriously? You have to pay for diploanexation now?

I guess I was right that this game won't be playable until V comes out. Oh well, not the first poor game I wasted my money on.

 

[grommile]

Seriously? You have to pay for diploanexation now?

Yes. This is not a new thing in 1.12; the only change in 1.12 is in the amount of DIP you have to pay.

... ah, I see you stopped playing when 1.8 came out.

 

[Moryg]

A 5 province Guyenne (Poitou, Gascone, Bearn, Armagnac, Labourd) Costs 730 dip points to annex. I don't think it was even close to that before the patch.

Why are so many people calling for curbstomping expansion so much?

Ulster with a claim cost me about 96 admin to core...

 

[roman566]

Yes. This is not a new thing in 1.12; the only change in 1.12 is in the amount of DIP you have to pay.

Sorry, I dropped the game around 1.3. You know, in the good old times when you simply feed the vassals, then diploanexed them to expand. Guess Paradox had to ruin even that aspect of the game.

 

[FreeSoc]

Sorry, I dropped the game around 1.3. You know, in the good old times when you simply feed the vassals, then diploanexed them to expand. Guess Paradox had to ruin even that aspect of the game.

You don't see the issue with entirely free land?

 

[grommile]

Sorry, I dropped the game around 1.3. You know, in the good old times when you simply feed the vassals, then diploanexed them to expand. Guess Paradox had to ruin even that aspect of the game.

Given that "conquer literally the entirety of Eurafrasia and eliminate all non-subject tags in the Americas" was still feasible in 1.11.4, it's not apparent to me that the diploannexation or conquest games have yet been ruined.

 

[Korashy]

Yup, claims being nerfed to pretty much uselessness was big hit. Admin Idea group got buffed even more. Looks like early goal in europe will be to become emperor for core cost reduction + admin idea group.

 

[roman566]

You don't see the issue with entirely free land?

Do you think Tsar looked at PLC and said 'nope, we do not have enough DIP points to go with the partitions'?

 

[Tavior]

Liguria, by virtue of the trade node changes, is now perhaps the most valuable province in the whole game. Coring that for roughly half of what you pay for an idea or one tech level is not much. Unless you are already hugely powerful, owning a cored Liguria is without much of a doubt more valuable than one administrative idea or one tech level.
Coring costs for Muscovy's traditional targets for expansion are irrelevant to this discussion, because they are not nearly on the level of a North Italian province.
I know that history is not necessarily a compelling argument for game design decisions, however in my humble opinion, it is not necessarily bad game design if the game actually gives a Spanish, French or Austrian player a reason to think twice about whether to annex Genoa or to keep them as a vassal, as Spain pretty much did historically.

TLDR: For the love of god, please DON'T lower the coring costs. They seem fine in 1.12.

Try to core Ukraine area and other Rus with a + 50% coring cost or whatever it is now. Then raise the core cost by a few % to account for time passing to 1600's and come back here and tell us that core cost are "fine". Ukraine's area development were raised compare to 1.11.4 old tax base in the 1.12 patch.

 

[Twoflower]

A 5 province Guyenne (Poitou, Gascone, Bearn, Armagnac, Labourd) Costs 730 dip points to annex. I don't think it was even close to that before the patch.

Again, I fail to see the problem here. Diplo-annexation of large vassals used to be too easy and cheap. Now it is one option among others, with benefits and drawbacks.

Why are so many people calling for curbstomping expansion so much?

Because expansion should be quite hard and costly, and because it should sometimes be the better option, or even just a valid option, to abstain from a landgrab or to keep a country as a vassal rather than outright annex it. I know somebody is inevitably going to say "it is a game, history is not a valid argument, and after all, there is nothing to do except blobbing". However, this fortunately is not true.

Ulster with a claim cost me about 96 admin to core...

Good.