For the love of god, lower the coring costs.

[FrigidSoul]

To expound on my reply from yesterday, coring costs have gone up somewhere around 40% compared to 1.11 (more for dipannexation) because we wanted to create some more interesting dynamics where conquering everything around you was not necessarily always the best option.

Any thoughts on giving back the Embassy diplomat now that you've vastly increased diplo-annex time?

 

[terminalstatus]

Yeah, sorry about yesterday's reply. It was borne from post release beer and irritation with some of the ridiculous exhaggerations in this thread.

All fine, these forums along with others can be an irritation. I hope the beer was at least good! Thank's for expanding on your reasoning behind it.

 

[Denkt]

You can still conquere the world however don't expect to have good tech or many idea group which is a good change.

 

[Yugoslavs]

I mean, how to reduce coring cost, when that is the whole point of this patch. Create tall not wide empires.

Only thing that annoys me is that there are still some achievements like WC or Nagaur.

 

[ShoGuL]

Just played a game as Tuscany, managed to unite entire north italy (minus Savoy provinces and Venice proper) AND fill out economic idea set before 1500.

It's more expensive, sure, but don't really see the major issue.

Granted Tuscany has some godlike rulers, but still

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Wait till you have Adm efficiency first? Or the Admin -25% idea?

So that you can do what, sit around click the increase Development button?

 

[zamieo]

To expound on my reply from yesterday, coring costs have gone up somewhere around 40% compared to 1.11 (more for dipannexation) because we wanted to create some more interesting dynamics where conquering everything around you was not necessarily always the best option.

It is still both possible and rewarding to expand, particularly if you take the right ideas, put money into advisors and use a mix of conquest and diploannexing. As Milan, I was able to unify most of Italy (more than twice starting development of France) in under a century without any core cost reduction, and could easily have done so faster. Growth is slower but it's certainly not 'blobbing now pointless'.

With that said, you are of course free to disagree, but this was an intended change and we knew it would upset some people, so we're not reverting it just because of one angry thread on the forums.

Wiz, would you be totally against administrative efficiency being 5 or 10 levels, where each level would give -5/10% coring costs/overextension impact and which would come every few administrative levels instead of the current system, where it's -25% at once at ADM tech level 23 and -25% more at 27?

 

[Tweakee]

To expound on my reply from yesterday, coring costs have gone up somewhere around 40% compared to 1.11 (more for dipannexation) because we wanted to create some more interesting dynamics where conquering everything around you was not necessarily always the best option.

It is still both possible and rewarding to expand, particularly if you take the right ideas, put money into advisors and use a mix of conquest and diploannexing. As Milan, I was able to unify most of Italy (more than twice starting development of France) in under a century without any core cost reduction, and could easily have done so faster. Growth is slower but it's certainly not 'blobbing now pointless'.

Umm, honest question: What interesting dynamics?

All I can see the changes doing is locking in specific idea groups more than ever and making the new development system foolish to invest in in most scenarios. Making one thing harder doesn't create interesting dynamics... new content does.

 

[Wizzington]

Any thoughts on giving back the Embassy diplomat now that you've vastly increased diplo-annex time?

Yeah, we need this somewhere else. Not sure where yet.

 

[Wizzington]

Wiz, would you be totally against administrative efficiency being 5 or 10 levels, where each level would give -5/10% coring costs/overextension impact and which would come every few administrative levels instead of the current system, where it's -25% at once at ADM tech level 23 and -25% more at 27?

Possibly, also possibly have the first 25% unlock earlier.

 

[TheDungen]

The whole point of this game is to have an alternative history, not to enforce what actually happened on the player. We know what happened, we all learned it in history class, we, or at least most people, want to change history. We want to take a nation that was historically weak and wiped out early on and make them a super power of the world. It's fun. If that's not your play style, that's fine but I don't know why you would want it to change for others.

Because I can't play the small centred game where I make a nation do slightly better than they did in real life with everyone else blobbing around me. You want world conquest well, the reason no one conquered the world is thta it was impossible, so I don't see why them making it extreemly difficult is a bad thing. If you want to be able to do something imposible... easily; cheat.

 

[R1kzee]

Only thing that annoys me is that there are still some achievements like WC or Nagaur.

Or WC as Nagaur.

 

[Twoflower]

Yeah, we need this somewhere else. Not sure where yet.

Would it possibly make sense to tie this to government rank?
Or, as an idea that is not based on a DLC-only mechanic, perhaps vassals (and possibly personal unions) under certain conditions could grant an extra diplomat, just like trade companies and colonial nations can generate merchants. This would be somewhat plausible - it can be a explained by talented diplomats from subject nations being recruited for the overlord's diplomatic corps, which makes even more sense within the game mechanics, where a subject's diplomatic options are restricted-, it would give another reasonable incentive against using marches or outright annexation and it would, as already mentioned, be something of a parallel to CNs and trade companys generating merchants.
The conditions should probably not be based on mere province count, but something interesting that is actually a challenge to achieve - just like trade node domination with a trade company.

 

[TheDungen]

Look at that ahistorical Austria. Lol, Qing, what a minmaxer. Russia stop being a tryhard. Mughals wtf, thats not ironman. Ottomans pls, exploit more.

Basically if by 'very few nations' you mean the princes in the HRE, then yes, very few grew more than a 'couple of provinces'. Other than that? Yeah.. history speaks for itself.

Austria inherited most of that. The russians colonised most of that and those provinces are really low on development so cheaper to core. The ottoman already have an idea that decreases coring costs to show that they did blob. The Qing is more of a change of mangement in an already existing nation. Which kind of only leave the mughal who should perhaps also get a blobbing idea.

 

[TheDungen]

What about historical blobbing, like the Ottomans?

They got a coreing cost reduction idea to help with that.

 

[Twoflower]

Austria inherited most of that. The russians colonised most of that and those provinces are really low on development so cheaper to core. The ottoman already have an idea that decreases coring costs to show that they did blob. The Qing is more of a change of mangement in an already existing nation. Which kind of only leave the mughal who should perhaps also get a blobbing idea.

Mughals have -25 % core-creation cost as a tradition; they are excellent for blobbing, especially since you will usually take Administrative to reform anyway.

 

[Haldan]

You should give Administrative some other bonuses than just Mercenaries and loans. I hate Mercenaries and I hate loans but I love coring and production.

 

[nOxr]

Would it possibly make sense to tie this to government rank?
Or, as an idea that is not based on a DLC-only mechanic, perhaps vassals (and possibly personal unions) under certain conditions could grant an extra diplomat, just like trade companies and colonial nations can generate merchants. This would be somewhat plausible - it can be a explained by talented diplomats from subject nations being recruited for the overlord's diplomatic corps, which makes even more sense within the game mechanics, where a subject's diplomatic options are restricted-, it would give another reasonable incentive against using marches or outright annexation and it would, as already mentioned, be something of a parallel to CNs and trade companys generating merchants.
The conditions should probably not be based on mere province count, but something interesting that is actually a challenge to achieve - just like trade node domination with a trade company.

Perhaps it could be a vassal interaction similar to Scutage? If a vassal is big enough you can choose to get an extra diplomat instead of extra tax when you relieve them of war duty.

 

[zamieo]

Possibly, also possibly have the first 25% unlock earlier.

I'm happy with a "possibly" for both of those solutions .

 

[Twoflower]

Perhaps it could be a vassal interaction similar to Scutage? If a vassal is big enough you can choose to get an extra diplomat instead of extra tax when you relieve them of war duty.

This would work, however, it would also be a DLC-only thing - since vassal interaction is a feature of Common Sense. I personally wouldn't mind that, it might not go over too well with some people here, I'm afraid.
Perhaps, something along the lines of:
vassal/PU has (exact numbers of course subject to balancing):
- more than, say, 5 provinces (or more than x development)
- less than 25 liberty desire
- more than 125 opinion of its overlord

As an additional idea, and a way to compensate for the loss of the unique buildings that grant leader upkeep, what about marches above a certain (not trivial to achieve) level of army and/or navy tradition granting an additional leader? (the historical "justification" being that the overlord can draw from a subject's officer pool). That way, all types of subjects (except protectorates) might provide their overlord a special boon and become more diverse in their utility.