If Denmark was bilingual, it means German states should have Scandinavian culture. If German states would be bilingual, then Denmark could get German culture.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Yes, I rarely see Sweden hold onto territory East of the Volga or South of the Danube for any significant amount of time, perhaps they need tweaking to match their historic invincibility
Originally posted by Dinsdale
Yes, I rarely see Sweden hold onto territory East of the Volga or South of the Danube for any significant amount of time, perhaps they need tweaking to match their historic invincibility
Well, I must say I have very rarely see them take the eastern ugric provinces and only usually have a pair of baltic provinces and perhaps a pair of northern german provinces (to the most).
What I really want to say, is that I have never looked at the map and had the feeling to say "Gosh! Is THAT huge blue bob Sweden?" Never. To the most "Ah the swedish are not doing too bad..."
I put this same point up a while ago, and i'm going to do so here again. If one were to walk from Kiel to Aalborg, I seriously doubt, especially the closer he got to the border he'd find anything drastically different from what he saw on one side, to what he saw on the other. In fact, he'd see many things the same, so incredibly the same because they've been integrated for centuries. People are coming up with a multitiude reasons they don't think Denmark should have German, or why they think such an opinion supporting Danes having German culture is wrong or unjustified... I wonder if they realize they are also in doing so dismissing as well the claims of just about any other multi-cultural country in the game. Denmark deserves German culture more than most multi-culturals deserve their extra culture(s).
Removing ugric from sweden doesn't make sense... Perhaps for gameplay reasons, it was a while since I played them (shame on me)... But historically, soldiers from finland were used, and as far as I remember, consisted of about 1/4-1/3 of the army. (before mercenaries that is).
Indrek, yes it does.
Finland had (by Eu2 time) been an integrated part of Sweden for hundreds of years, finns could be found at all levels of administration, made up a good part of the elite military, and was generally treated as an equal (though slightly poorer) part of the country. Finland was the eastern half of the swedish kingdom, much more a part of Sweden than say, Skåne or Lappland.
The TO and LO had no claims on ugric territory, Poland absolutely not, you could make a case for Russia (but then, Novgorod already gets Ugric culture)
Well I think the real issue behind people's minds is how to stop Sweden (there, Gelre), and by giving Denmark they'd swallow up Germany instead of fighting to a stalemate with Sweden.
Besides my much-demanded manpower lowering for Sweden, I think that maybe its the AI's failure to recognize that they can ship more than 2k over at a time, and end up getting chewed up piecemeal by Sweden's armies from ajacent (sp) lands. Maybe a CC in Oslo would help this ; only problem is that it would be juicy for some naval power in the North (England), or Sweden to come and take.
Besides my much-demanded manpower lowering for Sweden, I think that maybe its the AI's failure to recognize that they can ship more than 2k over at a time, and end up getting chewed up piecemeal by Sweden's armies from ajacent (sp) lands. Maybe a CC in Oslo would help this ; only problem is that it would be juicy for some naval power in the North (England), or Sweden to come and take.
It's a rare game for me that Sweden doesn't consume a large chunk of Northern Germany, and on occasion creates an empire from the baltic to the Rhine.
I will say that I see it less in 1.06 for some reason, though I think the constant wars in that version help to break Sweden up a little quicker, or have her conquests stripped away.
I keep forgetting to set the AI to coward
So? This is pretty much true anywhere in western Europe. Even today, it's said that you can walk from the Strait of Gibraltar, along the Spanish coast, thru the French Riveria, and down to the toe of the Italian penisula without ever passing thru 2 adjoining villages that have mutually unitelligible languages. But that doesn't mean that there are no differences between Spanish, Catalan, French, and Italian. It just means that the change from one to another is gradual, rather than an abrupt line. (And yes, before someone points it out, I know that culture, whether IRL or in EU II is more than just language.)
Also, remember that except for Båhuslen and Jæmtland, that was all the land that Sweden ever got from the Norwegian part of Denmark-Norway. They held Trøndelag for some time, but it was taken back by force by Bjelke. However, ingame, on average you see Sweden eat up parts of Norway, take Østlandet etc. Maybe Denmark should have the events they have tweaked to increase the importance and power of their Norwegian provinces to hold back Sweden.
I see your point, but i'm not simply pointing to there not being an abrupt line. I'm also not just talking about language. I'm talking about the entire distance from Kiel to Aalborg, i'm talking about the extreme similarity in customs, architecture, social life, and of course the one we keep going back to, language.
I think it would be incredibly difficult for someone to justify a country currently having more than one culture, and justifing their secondary cultures without at the same time, justifying German for Denmark, due to the same reasons. Above where Ugric was explained for Sweden, with Finns a huge part of the administration, etc. All that can be said of Germans in the Danish state as well.
Can someone test a hands-off game where the Mecklenburg CoT is moved to Copenhagen? It would be invaluable to this discussion, because it may very well be enough to balance Denmark and Sweden...
hrm
Thx to my new computer network, and 5 sweet computers on it, I'm testing out, Denmark's AI:
1)with Mecklemburgs COT... (wish Mecklemburg's capital was Schwerin, kinda funny when in later scenarios when Mecklemburg is a Swedish vassal to have lubeck and COT under their control since the COT has 0 business being part of Mecklemburg but should be with a Lubeck city state that paradox didn't make, cause it was a free city w/the COT.)
2)with German Culture...
3)with BOTH the COT and German culture...
the games are hands off, on Normal/Normal. Since the network isn't hooked up to the internet there won't be any pics, but I can always do hands off games. Oh and its on EU 1.07 and No Mods.
Should be done by tomorrow
AVA
Thx to my new computer network, and 5 sweet computers on it, I'm testing out, Denmark's AI:
1)with Mecklemburgs COT... (wish Mecklemburg's capital was Schwerin, kinda funny when in later scenarios when Mecklemburg is a Swedish vassal to have lubeck and COT under their control since the COT has 0 business being part of Mecklemburg but should be with a Lubeck city state that paradox didn't make, cause it was a free city w/the COT.)
2)with German Culture...
3)with BOTH the COT and German culture...
the games are hands off, on Normal/Normal. Since the network isn't hooked up to the internet there won't be any pics, but I can always do hands off games. Oh and its on EU 1.07 and No Mods.
Should be done by tomorrow
AVA
hmm.. i think that v1.07 finally got the "remove cot" working.. maybe an event could be made/editted to get a cot in Copenhagen and remove that in Mecklemburg
the rigid cultural system has it positives and negatives..
giving Denmark German culture would mean they'd easely accept bavarian people (which i think isn't exactly historical ) while not giving it gives trouble in Holstein and other northern german provinces.
what *could* be a possibility is a new culture for northern germany and give THAT to the Danes. or have a Danish event that changes province culture in Holstein (+others perhaps?) to Scandinavian if they own the province (though that would also call for german-minor events to change the culture back)
the rigid cultural system has it positives and negatives..
giving Denmark German culture would mean they'd easely accept bavarian people (which i think isn't exactly historical
) while not giving it gives trouble in Holstein and other northern german provinces.what *could* be a possibility is a new culture for northern germany and give THAT to the Danes. or have a Danish event that changes province culture in Holstein (+others perhaps?) to Scandinavian if they own the province (though that would also call for german-minor events to change the culture back)
As others said, its probably too much to ask as a general game rule for various reasons.
But that doesnt mean you cant easily make it so in your own game...open the save file, add "German" under Denmark's culture list, and reload. Voila! You now have German culture...start drinking.
I think I should probably repeat, as i've been arguing actually for the German culture side, that I don't think Denmark, as it stands, in the game should get German culture. While I say they are far more deserving of it than of other countries with secondary cultures, in the game it would be horribly abused, and as was said Denmark would have far fewer cultural ties to Bavarians. However I would like to see the Lubeck CoT be moved to Sjaelland at some point, and since it isn't a hardcoded change, I still support making Sjaelland an island.
I totally agree with N Katsyev's very good points.
I think, that either Denmark should get German culture - or Sjælland should be made an island and get the Meck CoT with an event.
Denmark is one of the oldest Kingdoms, and has never ever been annexed (although the Swedes nearly did it once - phew, that was close! ). So it really annoys me to see Bremen or Pommern snatching Jylland and Iceland and Sweden the rest in about 80% of the games...
I think, that either Denmark should get German culture - or Sjælland should be made an island and get the Meck CoT with an event.
Denmark is one of the oldest Kingdoms, and has never ever been annexed (although the Swedes nearly did it once - phew, that was close!
). So it really annoys me to see Bremen or Pommern snatching Jylland and Iceland and Sweden the rest in about 80% of the games...
The problem is that the difficulties one had in attacking Norway (huge mountain chains in the way) isn't accurately simulated. Sweden very rarely even made the attempt to invade Norway (the only serious attempt I know is Charles XII's norwegian invasion and the short war (1811?) that formed the Union.
Before the conquest of Skåne all attempts were aimed at taking that province or invading Denmark from the german possessions.
I think the best solution is to A) Give Sjaelland a CoT in an event (christian II's pluralistic reforms seems like a good idea) B) Improve the manpower and taxvalue of danish provinces and C) Remove the adjacency between Jutland and Sjaelland.
Perhaps the support levels in Norway could be lowered somehow? It wouldn't be an ideal solution, but it would work... (higher attrition facing those who brave the fearsome and mighty "Fjällkedjan Skanderna"...)
)
To solve the problem, would it be possible to split up the cultures in the Germanic provinces to North Germany, Central Germany and South Germany. Give Denmark North Germany consisting of (Pommerania, Mecklenberg, Bremen, and Holstein...plus other wthat would fit). All the German minors would have the three cultures as statre cultures to help them assimilate to a unified Germany. This solves the Danish/German problem by giving same culture to only a limited amount of provinces in historically reasonable areas.