For the love of all divine, unit descriptions

[EUG_MadMat]

Autoloader? Autoloader with revolvers? rate of fire? smg bonus? crit damage? stun mechanic? moral? ripple fire? armour magic values? optics ranges? infantry MGs? reload time? burst time? burst length? HE damage area? Suppression damage area? artillery burst lenght? aim time? stealth? gun noise? supply cost? ......

Well, that's another matter, and we've worked on that issue as you'll soon see. Well, those with a VIP Beta key at least ...

But writing a description of what each unit is or do, on top of its classification in a category, its icon (which comes with a hint actually identifying if it as a tank/SPG/SPAAG/...) and its picture feels a bit of an overkill. Besides, if we were able to do just that (writing a short description for each unit) in R.U.S.E because of the limited number of units, it just can't be done for Wargame or SD44 due to the sheer number of units.
I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all!

But what if its an artillery tank, such as the 95mm howitzer centaur/cromwell?

Then it's not a tank, but a fire support vehicle, and will be classified as such.

 

[mitchverr]

Hey man, if you want help you can always ask ^^

More then happy to research vehicles and write up things to ease the load

 

[WinTurkey]

Yeah, considering how seemingly knowledgeable some of the people on the forums are I'm sure you could crowdsource research.

Or maybe not, if Wargame's chat function is any indication of the sort of community the game will attract.

 

[morpher]

Well, that's another matter, and we've worked on that issue as you'll soon see. Well, those with a VIP Beta key at least ...

I hope you (as eugen) didn't watered down the game as the complexity depth of wargame is its main selling point even if it feels like it got out of your hands. Wish you luck.

 

[Destraex]

I agree with madmat.
But a unit history would be nice... but not necessarily needed. Maybe let the community fill it out.

 

[Wicca]

Holy f... MadMat
Let me get this straight. A player who likes the game your company produces, struggles because auf some game design decision with it, but still makes the the effort to overcome it, comes to the forum, makes a very reasonable comment how to improve the situation in a way that helps beginners but does not dumb the game down and your reaction is this?
I can't even...
I hope you are doing something very, very important and valuable at Eugen because it's for sure not community interaction.

Woah woah woah there, be nice! Madmat is amazing! Anyone stating otherwise needs to really do a soul search!!

 

[Fonz]

I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all!

MadMat I think what you MEANT to say is: "I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all handing out Beta codes in exchange for people writing them"

 

[Mr_Potter]

So as a Wargame newbie, my biggest frustration is simply not knowing what the hundreds of units in each game does. Some of them are fairly self-explanatory, like, I get that Leopard 2 tanks are armoured vehicles for blowing stuff up, but even then it gets complicated as there's dozens and dozens of tanks and I don't know their strenghts and weaknesses. Once I have it explained to me, for example by Stealth17 in his excellent, if incredibly lengthy videos, it makes perfect sense and it's a lot easier to plan my deployments and tactics, but to a new player, the unit cards don't really tell me anything. I feel a sense of information overload, and much of the info doesn't tell me much to begin with unless I already have played and learned the game.

So please, Eugen, for the sake of new players who just want to play your game without having to prowl forums or watch hours of YouTube videos -- just have a space for simple unit descriptions:


Not even gonna try to write a serious description, 'cause I know I'll probably get stuff wrong even for
a unit I know, and I know from experience that certain forummers here are ridiculously pedantic.

You know, like normal strategy games :


Even just a single sentence or two does it. For example, "lightly armoured cavalry tank with high speed and a gun stabiliser allowing it to fire on the move".

Descriptions would be especially welcome when trying to tell different variants and upgrades apart.

You play paradox games I assume? Therefore you go into each game and learn the mechanics overtime? Yes? Your asking the developer of a well respected and niche type game to "Dumb it down" and make it more casual so you can learn the game easier? Are you sure you play paradox games?

If your watching Stealth17 to learn wargame you will never get anywhere, google Razzmann or faust to learn wargame, even The firestarter if you want to be an arty memelord.

Wargame has a lack of telling you mechanics of its game, I agree, but there are plenty of guides and youtube tutorials to teach you this game, Paradox forums are the wrong place to be posting to learn about wargame, go to r/wargame or the Eugen forums if you must.

Wargame is unique. Wargame is hard to learn, it takes time and patience. One of the more brutal learning curves. Thats whys alot of us play. Its a large scale combined arms game with silly balance and flavour nations but to ask to make it more casual takes away the point of the game. Learn the mechanics or don't play. Simple.

 

[Destraex]

I love spending a lot of time comparing and building decks. However i can see how a beginner can get overwhelmed. Maybe a way to share decks with others? So beginners can look up deck recommendations and download them? That would be pretty cool i think.

Already possible in red dragon.

 

[Destraex]

Well, that's another matter, and we've worked on that issue as you'll soon see. Well, those with a VIP Beta key at least ...

But writing a description of what each unit is or do, on top of its classification in a category, its icon (which comes with a hint actually identifying if it as a tank/SPG/SPAAG/...) and its picture feels a bit of an overkill. Besides, if we were able to do just that (writing a short description for each unit) in R.U.S.E because of the limited number of units, it just can't be done for Wargame or SD44 due to the sheer number of units.
I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all!


Then it's not a tank, but a fire support vehicle, and will be classified as such.

The community would prolly be happy to fill the descriptions for you.

 

[axnone]

I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all!

I`m sure mods could fix it up for enthusiasts?

 

[Mendeth]

You play paradox games I assume? Therefore you go into each game and learn the mechanics overtime? Yes? Your asking the developer of a well respected and niche type game to "Dumb it down" and make it more casual so you can learn the game easier? Are you sure you play paradox games?

If your watching Stealth17 to learn wargame you will never get anywhere, google Razzmann or faust to learn wargame, even The firestarter if you want to be an arty memelord.

Wargame has a lack of telling you mechanics of its game, I agree, but there are plenty of guides and youtube tutorials to teach you this game, Paradox forums are the wrong place to be posting to learn about wargame, go to r/wargame or the Eugen forums if you must.

Wargame is unique. Wargame is hard to learn, it takes time and patience. One of the more brutal learning curves. Thats whys alot of us play. Its a large scale combined arms game with silly balance and flavour nations but to ask to make it more casual takes away the point of the game. Learn the mechanics or don't play. Simple.

Out of interest, which part of safe-keeper's post did you interpret as a request for 'dumbing-down' or "more casual" gameplay? A somewhat clearer representation of statistics - and how they are represented and/or work in game - is not 'dumbing-down'; it's clarification.

I completely agree that the depth of the Wargame series is attractive and one of its strongpoints, however I disagree that asking for clarification of how unit statistics translate into in-game strength/weaknesses is removing any of that depth.

 

[Holy.Death]

You play paradox games I assume? Therefore you go into each game and learn the mechanics overtime? Yes? Your asking the developer of a well respected and niche type game to "Dumb it down" and make it more casual so you can learn the game easier? Are you sure you play paradox games?

There is a difference between "making it more casual" (very worn out phrase, by the way) and "making it less opaque". Just compare the first Paradox titles to what we have now.

Wargame has a lack of telling you mechanics of its game, I agree, but there are plenty of guides and youtube tutorials to teach you this game, Paradox forums are the wrong place to be posting to learn about wargame, go to r/wargame or the Eugen forums if you must

Something is wrong if you have to go out of the game to learn its mechanics.

Wargame is unique. Wargame is hard to learn, it takes time and patience. One of the more brutal learning curves. Thats whys alot of us play. Its a large scale combined arms game with silly balance and flavour nations but to ask to make it more casual takes away the point of the game. Learn the mechanics or don't play. Simple.

Excuses.

 

[Elukka]

You play paradox games I assume? Therefore you go into each game and learn the mechanics overtime? Yes? Your asking the developer of a well respected and niche type game to "Dumb it down" and make it more casual so you can learn the game easier? Are you sure you play paradox games?

If your watching Stealth17 to learn wargame you will never get anywhere, google Razzmann or faust to learn wargame, even The firestarter if you want to be an arty memelord.

Wargame has a lack of telling you mechanics of its game, I agree, but there are plenty of guides and youtube tutorials to teach you this game, Paradox forums are the wrong place to be posting to learn about wargame, go to r/wargame or the Eugen forums if you must.

Wargame is unique. Wargame is hard to learn, it takes time and patience. One of the more brutal learning curves. Thats whys alot of us play. Its a large scale combined arms game with silly balance and flavour nations but to ask to make it more casual takes away the point of the game. Learn the mechanics or don't play. Simple.

Accessibility is not the same as dumbing down. I've played Wargame since EE, and having a steep learning curve is certainly not why I like it. Being able to get into an unnecessarily inaccessible game is not a point of pride. I like it despite the steep learning curve (which, let's be fair, is not nearly as bad as most 'realistic' wargames), which I was able to surmount relatively easily since I knew a thing or two about modern warfare.

More accessibility is always good. The truth is there is some number of people who would be interested in these games who give it a miss because it's too troublesome to get into. The right way to approach this issue is to consider what might be done to make the game more accessible, not to go "well, maybe they're not up to it" and feel superior about how you managed to get into it.

 

[Vulcan 607]

Holy f... MadMat
Let me get this straight. A player who likes the game your company produces, struggles because auf some game design decision with it, but still makes the the effort to overcome it, comes to the forum, makes a very reasonable comment how to improve the situation in a way that helps beginners but does not dumb the game down and your reaction is this?
I can't even...
I hope you are doing something very, very important and valuable at Eugen because it's for sure not community interaction.

Well you have everything you need on the units stat card what more do you need?
Not to mention the fact you have the armoury that will tell you what you need to know

 

[Wicca]

Most games come with an instructional manual. That is basically out of game information. And really most people learn games by trial and error, or by playing the singleplayer game.

 

[OntoTR]

This thread gave me cancer to be honest.

Just play the game and you will learn. If it is too complicated for you.... maybe Command and Conquer isn't. There are only a couple of tanks.

If you have a low learning curve wargame is not the right game for you. Same goes for paradox games... mostly.

The fun for most players about those games is the never ending learning. At least for me. Role with it.

And remember if a tank has too much front armor... just sideshot it. If you got helorushed you simply got tactical outplayed. Golden rules of Wargame.

 

[EUG_MadMat]

Accessibility is not the same as dumbing down.

Exactly.
SD44 might be more complex than the Wargame series was, due to the addition of plenty of new mechanics (dynamic frontline, encirclement, surrender, off-map asets, ...), yet we've made our best to work on accessibility and makes things clearer or informations about game mechanics much easier to find.

There will also be a Boot Camp with quite a few training missions.

 

[DuroSVK]

Well, that's another matter, and we've worked on that issue as you'll soon see. Well, those with a VIP Beta key at least ...

But writing a description of what each unit is or do, on top of its classification in a category, its icon (which comes with a hint actually identifying if it as a tank/SPG/SPAAG/...) and its picture feels a bit of an overkill. Besides, if we were able to do just that (writing a short description for each unit) in R.U.S.E because of the limited number of units, it just can't be done for Wargame or SD44 due to the sheer number of units.
I'm positive about that because I would be the one ending up writing them all!


Then it's not a tank, but a fire support vehicle, and will be classified as such.

You are such a lazy Bitch MadMat!!!

 

[nande]

made our best to work on accessibility and makes things clearer or informations about game mechanics much easier to find.

and yet the weapon chance-to-hit indicator seems to have disappeared. Or at least those percentages are not visible in any of the screenshots. Obfuscating such important factors as weapon accuracy and modifiers is not a very good start.