• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Wraith11B

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I feel like that joke should be over the Carl meme image.

I guess less than none of those questions involves even more unanswerable questions next time!
 

El Pip

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I got the joke.
As long as someone did, that's the main thing.

So...the british could with a modicum of effort stopped the german imvasion way before it happened, but they didn't and now they won't come to help because norway is doomed and would take slightly more effort saving them than Norway is worth to the allies?
Norway played the game of neutrality with a relatively straight bat and that does come with risks. Namely when you suddenly do scream for protection no-one is ready. Plus the grand strategy behind the OTL Norway Campaign is complex.

In a paradox game of course none of that matters - the British AI just gets confused and is too busy garrisoning the Falklands with Armour to spare any units for Norway.

I feel like that joke should be over the Carl meme image.

I guess less than none of those questions involves even more unanswerable questions next time!
Less than none? Meaning next time will just raise points that make the questions even more mysterious and unanswered?

That is an astute guess, you have clearly been paying attention.
 
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Wraith11B

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As long as someone did, that's the main thing.
Better count two who did!

Norway played the game of neutrality with a relatively straight bat and that does come with risks. Namely when you suddenly do scream for protection no-one is ready. Plus the grand strategy behind the OTL Norway Campaign is complex.

In a paradox game of course none of that matters - the British AI just gets confused and is too busy garrisoning the Falklands with Armour to spare any units for Norway.
I feel like there was a lost chance for Paradox to build a truly "strategic" AI which weights what forces are necessary to be employed in the area they employ them... but that's just me thinking as a rational human and not someone trying to tell a computer what to do.

Less than none? Meaning next time will just raise points that make the questions even more mysterious and unanswered?

That is an astute guess, you have clearly been paying attention.
See, you answered my question with a question more obtuse and irrelevant to the original question... and thus created Paradox.

Damnit, Pip!

That said, of course I pay attention. Why else would I surround myself with six computers as if I'm some sort of mini-NSA?
 

TheButterflyComposer

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As long as someone did, that's the main thing.
My motto for writing comedy. It has...mixed results.

Norway played the game of neutrality with a relatively straight bat and that does come with risks. Namely when you suddenly do scream for protection no-one is ready. Plus the grand strategy behind the OTL Norway Campaign is complex
Yeah but this is a laradox game so none of that matters.

In a paradox game of course none of that matters -
See?

That said, of course I pay attention. Why else would I surround myself with six computers as if I'm some sort of mini-NSA?
I don't know. Maybe the warm glow of the monitors replaces the cold emptiness of not enough childhood hugs? :)

People who dig into the games are pretty strange. Just look at meeeeeeeeeee!
 
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Better count two who did!
Hurrah!

I feel like there was a lost chance for Paradox to build a truly "strategic" AI which weights what forces are necessary to be employed in the area they employ them... but that's just me thinking as a rational human and not someone trying to tell a computer what to do.
This is more @nuclearslurpee s turf but I think they sort of did but ballsed up the implementation. The Theatre AI is supposed to do that job but gets confused by the difference between a major threat (say Germany) and a collection of South American Minors. And by the Sea. And by the concept of re-assigning already assigned forces. And probably lots of other things.

From the outside it looks like HOI4 was designed to make it easier for the AI to shuffle forces around by sea (by abstracting it to an extent) and is maybe a gesture towards solving that problem?

See, you answered my question with a question more obtuse and irrelevant to the original question... and thus created Paradox.

Damnit, Pip!
*Laughter in British Intensifies*

My motto for writing comedy. It has...mixed results.
So far it is working well for Ged, so keep doing that. :)

That said, of course I pay attention. Why else would I surround myself with six computers as if I'm some sort of mini-NSA?
I don't know. Maybe the warm glow of the monitors replaces the cold emptiness of not enough childhood hugs? :)

People who dig into the games are pretty strange. Just look at meeeeeeeeeee!
Might write a terrible pop-psych paper about how the switch from 'warm' power hungry CRT monitors to 'cold' efficient LED monitors is responsible for the cold harsh and unfriendly attitude on the modern internet compared to the mythical warmer and friendly days. It would be utter tosh and junk science of the worst sort, so I imagine it would get published in the Lancet.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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And by the Sea.
Paradox's great enemy.

Might write a terrible pop-psych paper about how the switch from 'warm' power hungry CRT monitors to 'cold' efficient LED monitors is responsible for the cold harsh and unfriendly attitude on the modern internet compared to the mythical warmer and friendly days. It would be utter tosh and junk science of the worst sort, so I imagine it would get published in the Lancet.
And then either by the Mail or the Guardian, or possibly both.
 
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Wraith11B

Call Kenny Loggins, you're in the DANGER ZONE...
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1599661131007.png


This is more @nuclearslurpee s turf but I think they sort of did but ballsed up the implementation. The Theatre AI is supposed to do that job but gets confused by the difference between a major threat (say Germany) and a collection of South American Minors. And by the Sea. And by the concept of re-assigning already assigned forces. And probably lots of other things.

From the outside it looks like HOI4 was designed to make it easier for the AI to shuffle forces around by sea (by abstracting it to an extent) and is maybe a gesture towards solving that problem?
Meh. Oversimplified, more like. I don't mind the HoI2 TC-esque of the transports, but still kinda makes things annoying. Like, was it really that hard to implement a restriction on where they could go? Or how far away from their "home" territory certain troops could go? Maybe if I coded it, but these guys are supposed to be professionals... right? I would have preferred that each theater is prioritized for what's available, and with an estimation of what the enemy has (naval assets shouldn't be hidden) in the area to dictate how much of a percentage of the forces they get, etc.

It also didn't help that the original layout is for non-individualized vessels (Destroyer/Subs/Transports) which makes things wonky... ugh. I could go on forever.

*Laughter in British Intensifies*


Might write a terrible pop-psych paper about how the switch from 'warm' power hungry CRT monitors to 'cold' efficient LED monitors is responsible for the cold harsh and unfriendly attitude on the modern internet compared to the mythical warmer and friendly days. It would be utter tosh and junk science of the worst sort, so I imagine it would get published in the Lancet.
Then a certain subset of people would hold you up as a modern-day Prophet--well, aside from the people here who already do, albeit for different reasons--and claim that they've "done their research."
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Then a certain subset of people would hold you up as a modern-day Prophet--well, aside from the people here who already do, albeit for different reasons--and claim that they've "done their research."

And then either by the Mail or the Guardian, or possibly both.
 
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The 16th of March 1940 New

El Pip

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The 16th of March 1940.

It is a Saturday and yet, somehow, King Haakon is still in the capital attending the war cabinet.

"Your majesty, are you sure you should be here?" Prime Minister Nygaardsvold asked.

"You think I should evacuate? Well I refuse." The King said defiantly.

"No, not that. It's just I've not seen you work a weekend since the Erik the Red's Land Debacle." Nygaardsvold said.

"And that was probably a mistake." Foreign Minister Koht added.

"My place is here in Oslo as a symbol of Norwegian resistance and to inspire the Army." The King huffed.

"It's because since the two German invasions linked up, they have cut all the routes to the Fjords." Security Minister Wold corrected the explanation.

King Haakon nodded and, just, managed to avoid sobbing.

"What is the latest news from the war?" Nygaardsvold took control of the meeting.

"All bad." General Ljungberg said.


This news does indeed look all bad.

"Our efforts to dislodge the Germans from Hamar have failed." General Laake explained.

"I think the challenge of fighting an enemy from over 20 years in the future was too much for out 1918 troops." Ljunberg added.

"Do you think being repeatedly bombed to death by the Germans was, perhaps, a more significant factor?" Intelligence Minister Roscher-Lund asked.

"Well it wouldn't help, but the temporal shock was probably decisive." General Ljunberg decided.

"Have we learnt from this first engagement?" The King asked urgently.

"Oh yes, we now have a much better understanding of modern warfare." General Laake said.

"That will help us in the coming battle for Oslo?"

"Absolutely. We can now confidently predict just how badly we will be beaten." General Laake said.

"Until now we have been guessing, but the Staff are now sure we are in a bigger pickle than a Herring in a Surslid factory the week before Christmas." General Ljunberg added.

---
The Herring have returned to the narrative, but is it a sign? How long should you leave your pickled Herring before eating? Can the King survive without visiting the Fjords? Will the 1918 infantry have time to at least reach the 1920s before Norway falls? Is the fall of Oslo inevitable? All, none, some or less of these questions couldl be answered next time on For King Haakon and the Fjords!
 
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Bullfilter

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The Herring have returned to the narrative, but is it a sign?
Given the herring was red in this case, it was surely a sign. Of what, well ... a harbinger of yet another inevitable defeat? And of Haakon pining for the fjords? The Norwegian Army seems in about the same state as the Norwegian Blue parrot of Python fame: if it hadn’t been nailed to the defensive line it would be pushing up the daisies. Bereft of life, it will soon Rest In Peace - an ex-Army. Beautiful plumage, though.
 
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El Pip

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I didn't think that one was too bad, but give the lack of response what do I know?

Given the herring was red in this case, it was surely a sign. Of what, well ... a harbinger of yet another inevitable defeat? And of Haakon pining for the fjords? The Norwegian Army seems in about the same state as the Norwegian Blue parrot of Python fame: if it hadn’t been nailed to the defensive line it would be pushing up the daisies. Bereft of life, it will soon Rest In Peace - an ex-Army. Beautiful plumage, though.
Beautiful antique plumage, for that classic Great War chic look.
 
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TheButterflyComposer

The Dark Lord Kelebek
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I didn't think that one was too bad, but give the lack of response what do I know?
The Passive Aggression of Christ...

Very well.

The 16th of March 1940.
It was indeed a Saturday. Ten Wikipedia points.

"It's because since the two German invasions linked up, they have cut all the routes to the Fjords." Security Minister Wold corrected the explanation.
All? Oslo is compelty cut off? Cos Norway has fjords in all directions...that means no escape for the king when the inevitable happens. Shame that.

King Haakon nodded and, just, managed to avoid sobbing.
This, technically, is correct, though, of course, abusing the comma does carry a penalty, traditionally, 10 Wikipedia points.

I think the challenge of fighting an enemy from over 20 years in the future was too much for out 1918 troops." Ljunberg added.

"Do you think being repeatedly bombed to death by the Germans was, perhaps, a more significant factor?" Intelligence Minister Roscher-Lund asked.
Possibly, though by your own research, we know that being dead doesn't stop you from doing stuff in HOI. So being bombed to death doesn't help, but the time shock troops certainly finished them off.

The Herring have returned to the narrative, but is it a sign? How long should you leave your pickled Herring before eating? Can the King survive without visiting the Fjords? Will the 1918 infantry have time to at least reach the 1920s before Norway falls? Is the fall of Oslo inevitable? All, none, some or less of these questions couldl be answered next time on For King Haakon and the Fjords!
Yes. Indeterminate. Probably? No. Yes.

Happy?
 
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RobbieAB

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"It's because since the two German invasions linked up, they have cut all the routes to the Fjords." Security Minister Wold corrected the explanation.
Given Oslo itself is at the top of Oslofjord, if the castle is cut of from the fjords, that is indeed serious!

It is a very nice castle, at least from the outside, but it is right on the waters edge.
 

Bullfilter

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I didn't think that one was too bad, but give the lack of response what do I know?
The fora are quiet at the moment ... too quiet! We expect an attack just before dawn.
 
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Wraith11B

Call Kenny Loggins, you're in the DANGER ZONE...
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The fora are quiet at the moment ... too quiet! We expect an attack just before dawn.
Sorry about that... I was busy with a dude who blew for a BAC of 0.34... aka, FOUR TIMES THE LEGAL LIMIT.
 

Bullfilter

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Sorry about that... I was busy with a dude who blew for a BAC of 0.34... aka, FOUR TIMES THE LEGAL LIMIT.
:eek: Wow! Over here, that would be almost seven times the limit. Surprised they were still conscious!
 
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nuclearslurpee

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And I've gotten through this one, as well. Much funnier than Butterfly, I will say, and yet somehow arguably more majestic.

Out of curiosity, Lord Pip, would the impending defeat and presumably conclusion of this AAR have anything to do with that matter you PMed me about a little while ago?

I didn't think that one was too bad, but give the lack of response what do I know?
Well, if we're being honest, the soldiers-from-the-past trope may have gotten a little bit...old.

:p

Sorry about that... I was busy with a dude who blew for a BAC of 0.34... aka, FOUR TIMES THE LEGAL LIMIT.
:eek: Wow! Over here, that would be almost seven times the limit. Surprised they were still conscious!
I suspect he was only 34% conscious, specifically the 34% that thinks it's a good idea to get behind the wheel under those circumstances.
 
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Wraith11B

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And I've gotten through this one, as well. Much funnier than Butterfly, I will say, and yet somehow arguably more majestic.
More majestic only because the relation between the amount of Royalty between them is heavily weighted towards King Haakon, since he features in all of them.

Well, if we're being honest, the soldiers-from-the-past trope may have gotten a little bit...old.

:p
Which brings up a question in my mind: why does Paradox insist on having "levels" (1918, 1934, etc) of infantry? There are weapons and kit that the infantry use, and doctrines that train the troops in that use. The difference between an infantryman in 1918 and 1939 or even 1945 basically came down to what weapons were in their hands and how their units were employed, and by and large, I can't imagine that one is heavily weighted towards being "superior" to the other (c.f.: WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (USSR and US), et al.)

I suspect he was only 34% conscious, specifically the 34% that thinks it's a good idea to get behind the wheel under those circumstances.
He was sufficiently conscious that when the magistrate looked at the BAC, he looked at the man, looked at me, looked back at the paper with the BAC, and back at me only to say, "This can't be right."
 
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nuclearslurpee

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Which brings up a question in my mind: why does Paradox insist on having "levels" (1918, 1934, etc) of infantry? There are weapons and kit that the infantry use, and doctrines that train the troops in that use. The difference between an infantryman in 1918 and 1939 or even 1945 basically came down to what weapons were in their hands and how their units were employed, and by and large, I can't imagine that one is heavily weighted towards being "superior" to the other (c.f.: WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (USSR and US), et al.)
On one hand, in Paradox's defense the "model years" at least in HoI3 (I can't really speak to HoI2 or its variants) are on one hand meant to represent the contemporary time point of the tech, e.g. 1938 Infantry Small Arms would represent a standard infantry rifle developed and, presumably, built en masse in 1938 or thenabouts. On the other hand, it's a game balance abstraction to keep players researching roughly in check with their peer powers i.e. the researching-ahead-of-time mechanic, or for minor powers to accentuate how backward and pathetic they are.

To retake the offensive, though, for infantry in particular this research model is really not accurate as most infantry of the era relied on a perfectly good* rifle developed in the WWI era or even earlier, or if they did upgrade it was very much a generational change (e.g. Japanese Type 38 --> Type 99 rifles, the former from 1905 and the latter introduced in 1939). What does fit the HoI model better are the more specialized weapons, light artillery and MGs and such. Kind of makes sense since the specialized equipment was what needed to be frequently updated and reworked to meet needs in the field or to incorporate new developments, whereas the rifle and bullet are centuries old and really just need to do "fire" and "reload" without failing to meet needs in the field.

*"Perfectly good" here being understood in the same sense as "military-grade".

Anyways, likely a proper model of infantry small arms would be to have a single WWI-era (1918) tech and a single WW2-era (1936, 1939, 1942, or some year like that) tech for infantry small arms. This may seem to allow the minors to keep parity too easily, but (1) the other specialized weapon techs should take care of that, and (2) such parity is fairly historical, it is not as if the majors were firing Mosin-Nagants and Lee-Enfields while whilst the minors aside from Slovakia were throwing sticks and stones after all.

To bring it back around, this means that El Pip's representation of the model years here is arguably a more accurate representation of what it means to be "1918 Infantry" than Paradox's and thus we salute accordingly.

He was sufficiently conscious that when the magistrate looked at the BAC, he looked at the man, looked at me, looked back at the paper with the BAC, and back at me only to say, "This can't be right."
And legally, it was indeed not right. Which I hope is why this lovely gentleman is safely jailed, aye?
 
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