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unmerged(28944)

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MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL!!!

Please remember those serving in the armed forces of our nations who are away from home this holiday season and thank them for their service!!!
 

Lord E

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Merry Christmas to you too Draco.

Interesting to see the Imperial forces getting ready for the finale push, I am pretty certain that this will turn out as a victorious and great operation for the British. Great news.

As for an epilogue I would love one, you can’t end this story without showing how the British Empire created by these wars will rule the world for a thousand years :)
 

Kurt_Steiner

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And a Happy New Year!!!
 

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CHAPTER ONE HUNDRED FORTY​


Peace?​


August 15, 1944 marked the clandestine arrival of a pair of foreign dignitaries and their entourage at London’s Savoy Hotel on the Strand. While the exact identities of the two dignitaries was unknown to all but a handful of people in London and an even smaller group at the Savoy. That the two men were from the Far East was unmistakable, but from where in the Far East was unknown until midday on August 16 when a motorcade arrived bearing the Thai Ambassador to the Court of St. James, Seni Pramoj arrived at the Savoy. Shortly thereafter the motorcade departed for the Foreign Office this time bearing not only Ambassador Pramoj but also Field Marshal Plaek Pibulsongkram, Prime Minister of Thailand, and Pridi Banomyong, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and current regent for the King of Siam, Ananda Mahidol. The bantam Pibulsongkram was identified by an astute member of the Press who had been camping out in hopes of catching the acting couple of Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier who were also staying at the Savoy. By the time the three Thais arrived at the Foreign Office building on St. Charles Street at Whitehall the diplomatic and political communities within London were busy with speculation on the reason for the clandestine arrival of the Thai Prime Minister and Regent and the object of the meeting with the Foreign Secretary Eden.

The men who were meeting with the Thais, however, were well aware of the why of the meeting, thanks to successes made by the Imperial Intelligence Office’s agents in Bangkok led by Colonel Walter J. Cawthorn. The IIO agents, having access to the broken Japanese diplomatic code, were aware on August 1 that the Japanese Ambassador in Bangkok had received orders to forward a request from Tokyo that Field Marshal Pibulsongkram and the Thai Government act as the Sino-Japanese Alliance’s agents in opening a dialogue with the British Empire. While on the surface the Japanese request would appear as a simple attempt to open negotiations by way of a neutral party, in reality the IIO agents were able to glean that the Tokyo approached the Thais in hopes that the pro-Japanese Pibulsongkram would be given some diplomatic slight that the Thai Prime Minister would escalate into an international incident. Such an occurrence, Tokyo opinioned to the Ambassador in Bangkok, would force the British to slow their operations in the Far East to safeguard against the possibility of Thailand rejoining the Sino-Japanese Alliance and thereby putting a strong regional enemy directly on the borders of lightly defended Burma, Malaya and British India.

Unfortunately for Tokyo the strategy failed to take into account the surge in popularity and support for the pro-British King Ananda Mahidol and the Khabuan Kan Seri Thai (Free Thai Movement - or Seri Thai for short) which had, since the start of the war in the Far East, slowly eroded the powerbase of Field Marshal Pibulsongkram. This erosion firmly moved the Thais away from the Japanese sphere of influence and re-established the fierce pride in being one of the few Far East nations that had never been colonised and stoked the fires of maintaining that independence against both Western and Eastern powers. So instead of obtaining a possible agent provocateur in the body of the Thai Government, Tokyo acquired exactly what it appeared they had requested, a neutral party opening a dialogue to enter into negotiations for a peaceful resolution of the war in the Far East.

After the quick conclusion of what has become known simply as the Thai Meeting, arrangements were made for senior officials of the foreign ministries of the British Empire, Imperial Japan, the Reorganized National Government of China (now known as New China), Manchukuo, France, the Netherlands and officials of the United States State Department to hold peace talks in Taipei, Formosa with the first meeting to take place on August 25, 1944. The meeting opened with the lead Japanese diplomat, Kenkichi Yoshizawa, informing the British and American delegation that the members of the Sino-Japanese Alliance would be willing to agree to an armistice in which the British and American Governments agreed to return all captured Chinese, Manchukuo or Japanese territories, all POWs and agreed to a reduction of troop strengths in Imperial colonies in the Far East, American possessions in the Pacific and a demilitarization of the Philippine Islands.

Without waiting to consult with the French, Dutch or American delegations, Chief Political Adviser to Admiral James, Sir Esler Dening, emphatically made it clear that such an agreement would not be acceptable to the British Crown. As a result Yoshizawa and the rest of the Japanese delegation departed the talks in protest, followed by the French legation, led by Charles Arsène-Henry, who protested Sir Esler’s refusal to consult with the other delegations before delivering such a refusal. Admiral James, as both C-in-C Far East Command and His Majesty's Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the Far East, allowed the Japanese to safely return to Japan before reinstating Operation ROLLING THUNDER. Admiral James also launched Operation CLEAR HEAD which was a propaganda operation that dropped leaflets amongst the bombs being dropped by Strategic Command, the leaflets addressed to the Japanese people and explaining the actions of the Imperial Japanese Government in allowing the war to continue. Less than twenty-fours elapsed before the Japanese signaled a desire to return to the negotiation table.

Taking place on September 1, 1944 and meeting again in Taipei, the second round of talks lasted much longer than the first primarily due to Sir Esler opening the dialogue and nearly dictating to both the members of the Sino-Japanese alliance and the Empire’s allies the structure of the armistice. Japan, China and the rest of the world were informed in very blunt terms that the immediate independence of Korea and a formal recognition of His Imperial Highness the Prince Imperial Eui of Korea as His Imperial Majesty Eui of the Empire of Korea was a precursor for any agreements. With there being a complete lack of ability by any party to refute the support for this demand, especially considering the number of Imperial troops currently located upon the Korean Peninsula, both the Western and Eastern powers agreed to the British condition. Moving forward, Sir Esler explained that London would agree to an armistice between the Sino-Japanese alliance, the British Empire, France, the Netherlands and the United States providing that in addition to reparations being provided by the members of the Sino-Japanese alliance certain territories were ceded away from Japan and China. To the United States the South Sea Mandate given to Imperial Japan by the League of Nations following the end of the Great War would be ceded, given that all of the islands within the Mandate were already under control of U.S. Marines. To the British Empire, Japan would cede Formosa. China would cede to the British Empire the island of Hainan and the territories surrounding the Pearl River Delta including the city of Canton and the surrounding towns of Donnguan, Foshan, Jiangmen, Shenzhen, Zhongshan and Zhuhai.

Following Sir Esler’s presentation the American representative, Under Secretary of State Edward Stettinius, Jr, informed both the Sino-Japanese delegation but also the allied parties, that the United States would only agree to an armistice if severe military restrictions were imposed upon both China and Japan. Specifically, the Imperial Japan Army to be restricted to no more than 75,000 men, the army of China to be restricted to no more than 100,000 men, while the Imperial Japanese Navy be prohibited from the building or use of any aircraft carriers, any submarines, and any capital ship having a displacement greater than five thousand tons. Any capital ship over five thousand ton displacement was to be turned over to the United States Navy as compensation for losses inflicted upon the United States by the unprovoked attack of December, 1941. The air services of both the IJA and the IJN would also be prohibited from the ownership or use of anymore than twenty-five fighter aircraft and no multi-engine aircraft. Secretary Stettinius also demanded that all Japanese officials working within the government of Japan’s puppet state of Manchukuo return to Japan and allow the people of Manchukuo run their own nation.

Minister Arsène-Henry, head of the French delegation, made demands for territorial concessions on the part of China and reparations from Japan for the destruction of the Paul Doumer Bridge over the Red River in Hanoi, while Robert van Gulik, the Dutch representative to the peace talks, announced that the Government of Her Majesty Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands sought no concessions from any of the members of the Sino-Japanese alliance yet did fully agree with and support the demands pronounced by the British Empire.

Shigeru Yoshida, the new leader of the Japanese delegation, Chu Minyi, the head of the Chinese delegation, and Chuichi Ohashi of the Manchukuo delegation, while having very little room with which to negotiate on the armistice provisions, were able to successfully challenge several of the provisions laid out by the allied powers. Yoshida countered the demand for reparations by arguing that the loss of both Formosa and Korea would prove to be a damaging blow to the Japanese economy that would place Japan in a similar position as faced by the Weimar Republic following the enforcement of the Versailles Treaty. Faced with the spectre of a return of what the Americans called the Great Depression, the Empire, the Dutch and the Americans agreed to remove the call for reparations, followed reluctantly by the French. Minyi and Yoshida then were able to successfully argue against the French demands by pointing out the complete lack of any French troops anywhere north of southern Indochina let alone anywhere within Chinese territory while the loss of the Paul Doumer Bridge being solely the responsibility of the French colonial government’s decision to destroy the bridge. Thanks in large part to poor relations between France and the other Western power, the Chinese and Japanese contentions were found to be valid and the French demands were removed from the armistice stipulations. Chuichi Ohashi, while considered rightly to be little more than a pawn for the Japanese, acquiesced to the demands put forth by the Americans, however, was able to secure for Manchukuo and Puyi Aisin-Gioro, the Emperor, the protection of both the British Empire and the United States for a period of five years from any absorption of Manchukuo into the New China of Wang Jingwei. While this apparent crack in the solidarity of the Sino-Japanese alliance came as a surprise to the Western powers, the worsening of the already poor state of relations between France and her European allies came as a surprise to none.

Despite the tensions that were born and strengthened during the armistice talks of September 1944, all participants heaved a silent sigh of relief when on October 1, 1944 the assembled delegations arrived at Cheju-do to sign the armistice papers. Climbing aboard HMS St. George, representatives from each of the nations engaged the Far East War began signing the armistice agreement at twelve noon local time, and fifteen minutes later with the scrawling flourished signature of Lord Mountbatten marking the British Crown’s agreement, peace arrived around the world for the first time since 1939.

But would the peace last?

**

That's the question, isn't it??

Stay tuned for the Epilogues.
 

Kurt_Steiner

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Then, this is it, isn't it? The war is over? Really?

Surprising. No need to nuke anyhting. Good, good.
 

Dinglehoff

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These Army, Navy, and Air force restrictions are the worst of all those demands. Outrageous. I can't believe the Japanese government would accept them, unless they planned to ignore those armistice terms anyway. They should have played hardball on that, nobody should accept that.
 

Incognitia

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Those military restrictions do seem...excessive.

I would have thought that restrictions on submarines, no aircraft carriers and no long-range bombers would suitably cripple the Japanese at sea, while still permitting them destroyers and light cruisers for trade protection and similar duties around the Pacific.

Then, on land, ban them from any long range weapons emulating the British rockets; no heavy armoured vehicles, perhaps restrictions on siege artillery, but allow them infantry and militia; otherwise you risk a repeat of the Weimar government depending on militias made up of soldiers who de-mobbed en masse but aren't under government control. I would expect the Japanese to note that also in the peace negotiations.

Additionally, by arguing rights sui possidetis for Korea, the British open themselves to an argument that the Japanese can do what they please in the Home Islands, including retaining any forces still intact there, as well as a possibility of the same in Manchukuo, defying the British to invade if they can't accept those terms.

I'm also a little surprised at the British seizing territory around Hong Kong in China; Hainan I can see, as it is an island, and I would have thought that stout defences in Hong Kong and reaction forces on Hainan and Formosa would suffice to protect Hong Kong, without needing to seize large surrounding territories; I could see them also requesting an extension of the Hong Kong leases, possibly with a bit more territory for expansion of the city.

However, the war is over. Whoooooop!
 

trekaddict

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Oh Jesus. Excessive arms restrictions.

That has worked terribly well in Germany. Terribly well I say!
 

TheExecuter

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Wang only gets 100,000 men to try to control China?

China loses a significant industrial and economic area in Formosa, Hainan, and Canton?

The communists are going to have a field day with this arrangement...
 

Nathan Madien

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But would the peace last?

Judging by the peace terms...

No way! If Japan is anything like Germany, there will be another war to avenge these harsh terms.
 

trekaddict

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Judging by the peace terms...

No way! If Japan is anything like Germany, there will be another war to avenge these harsh terms.

And Japan being Japan this war will epically fail since either a) the Militarists remain in power and we all know that their judgement is impaired at best or b) we get a Communist Regime in Japan that might do better initially but will still be crushed between the Empire and the US.
 

Dinglehoff

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Armistices aren't even official peace treaties that permanently end a war. Hypothetically; they could demobilize in accordance with the armistice terms and the official peace agreement could basically be dictated to the Japanese, who are in a completely impotent position. This seems like EPIC incompetence, especially with recent history to go on.

Edit: The Japanese leadership is fine with Japan being helpless and irrelevant on the world stage, forever? That's what they've agreed to.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(28944)

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Kurt_Steiner - Yep, its over and done... for now. :ninja:

Dinglehoff - I know I wouldn't have accepted those demands... at least not until my enemy had invaded my land and wiped out my defences. But then again, I've been accused more than once of being not so subtle. Mayhap the Japanese are more subtle than they've been given credit for, eh?

Incognitia - I agree with you. Completely, regarding Japan. With China, well... certain advisers in the Colonial Office and Hong Kong might have been a little over zealous regarding the needs of the Crown Colony of Hong Kong and its future growth needs... :blush: Call it, ah, exuberance?

But for all that, yes, the war is over, so let's celebrate!

trekaddict - Quite right, worked extremely well in Germany. :wacko: However, recall that many in the West are counting on the East being backwards AND those that are smarter than that are possibly counting on the fact that Japan is an island and can be blockaded to limit Japan's ability to go the re-armament route.

TheExecuter - Recall, the West (and the Empire in particular) care not a wit about Wang's issues with postwar China, many hoping for a return of the instability of the 1920s & '30s to make it easier to do "work" in China.

Oh, and the communists? The majority of the big names in the ChiCom movement were taken out by the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese war in the '30s. It'll be awhile, if ever, that Wang will need to worry about any communist movement. Warlords and nationalists, yes, communists, not so much. :mellow:

Nathan Madien - IF Japan is like Germany you will be right. However, IF Japan takes a different route, things might actually be a whole lot more interesting...

trekaddict (2) - Come now, you forget the possibility of the leaders in Japan actually learning form their mistakes. Oh, and with the Japanese communist movement virtually ceasing to exist after the 1935 arrest of JCP leadership and the dissolution of many supporting organizations, and the dismantling of the ChiComs AND the Soviets, what chances do the communists have in gaining ANY power in Japan? ;)

Dinglehoff (2) - As you said, "Armistices aren't even official peace treaties..." Recall that the RL Korean War Armistice never made it past the armistice stage... just sayin' there are a lot of possibilities that can still come into play.
 

trekaddict

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trekaddict (2) - Come now, you forget the possibility of the leaders in Japan actually learning form their mistakes. Oh, and with the Japanese communist movement virtually ceasing to exist after the 1935 arrest of JCP leadership and the dissolution of many supporting organizations, and the dismantling of the ChiComs AND the Soviets, what chances do the communists have in gaining ANY power in Japan? ;)

Oh no. I count on them being politicians trying to keep their jobs and thus playing to the mob.
 

Dinglehoff

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Dinglehoff (2) - As you said, "Armistices aren't even official peace treaties..." Recall that the RL Korean War Armistice never made it past the armistice stage... just sayin' there are a lot of possibilities that can still come into play.

That's true, but we seem to be tracking closer to a WWI style armistice and peace agreement. A "Diktat" style peace ultimatum seems likely as a follow up to these terms.
 

Kurt_Steiner

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That's true, but we seem to be tracking closer to a WWI style armistice and peace agreement. A "Diktat" style peace ultimatum seems likely as a follow up to these terms.

Melikesit.

That may mean a "For King and Country Redux" when Japan seeks revenge.

Very cunning, Draco, very cunning.
 

trekaddict

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Melikesit.

That may mean a "For King and Country Redux" when Japan seeks revenge.

Very cunning, Draco, very cunning.

Oh dear. With China and Japan working together that would be nasty.
 

Porkman

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I may be a bit biased, but this seems like a very, very, very poor plan for the Empire. Give it ten years and anyone with a half a mind will notice that China was invaded lost millions of people to the Japanese and are then being penalized for it because the Japanese attacked the empire.Really, I'm inclined that the British declined to help China fight Japan in the first place, because it would deprive them of the chance to steal Chinese territory from a Japanese puppet.

The primary losses of territory in this are all from China proper. The Japanese lose Korea and Taiwan which they've only had for 50 years along with some Pacific islands they've had for an even shorter period of time. The Chinese, by contrast, lose Taiwan, which has been part of China for the better part of 400 years, Hainan an even longer period of time, and Guangzhou (Canton) which is China's 7th largest city. (though they probably are taking an even larger area because Guangzhou doesn't directly link to Hong Kong, so really what's now the Pearl River mega city or 16,000 square kilometers) Korea also gets to become independent while the areas taken from China are put under direct British administration.

The Empire can talk about needing the territory for the defence of Hong Kong or Malaysia but the bottom line is that they just annexed an area the size of Austria. They have no cultural or trade links with those areas and the people within them had no responsibility for the actions of Japan.

The whole plan is imperial and idiotic. A far better plan would be to heavily penalize Japan's military but allow China to have a much larger one (or even not very large). China would break the alliance with Japan in a heartbeat if the threat of Japanese troops is removed. Once that happens, the empire uses them to balance Japan.

As it is, the current plan is going to prove Japan's rhetoric about needing to free Asia from the rapaciousness of Western Imperialism entirely correct , seeing as how the British have just added more land to their empire. Unlike in OTL, where the rest of Asia still hates Japan for launching the war, in this timeline the IJA is going to be admired for standing up to the British who were just waiting for any excuse to steal more land.


Taking territory doesn't just kill any prowestern sentiment in China, it salts the Earth and makes sure it will never come back again for at least a century. Which is also going to upset the American Christian lobby. (If you recall it was these guys who called foul on the British secret treaty that gave Shandong to Japan, and forced them to give it back at the Washington naval conference). Missionaries have long memories and the ears of those in power and the British empire has just undone everything they've been working at since the Boxer rebellion.
 
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Ciryandor

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It will entirely depend on what happens with the final peace treaty...