For King and Country

[KiMaSa]

But would they really want a court convened? Pretty embarrassing to admit having Generals running rogue like that. Monty might end up being delivered orders relieving him of all duty and found shortly after with a single gunshot to the temple. (Whether self inflicted or only apparently so.)

Note that I'm not advocating the King sanction such a thing but that given some things we've seen would not be impossible to happen sanction or no.

 

[Nathan Madien]

Monty might end up being delivered orders relieving him of all duty and found shortly after with a single gunshot to the temple. (Whether self inflicted or only apparently so.)

A gunshot to the foot seems more poetic.

 

[Lord E]

Our heroes are safe and alive for the moment and that is jolly good news. I feared for some time there that Drake were drifting away from life and reality, but luckily he will be able to return to his wife in person not just through a dream. Wonderful to see the RAF doing their job and crushing these commies once and for all.

After all these battle updates from the Russian winter it shall be interesting to see what happens in the rest of the world…

 

[Dead William]

Well now, these are interesting developments. Malcolm had a Hail bright Cecilia moment there eh? It is indeed almost always better to hold on than to reconquer. I just hope the snow does not move back in, that would be the end of the Paras. Not that this is not already the end of the paras as we know them.

Poor Draco. Perhaps he should have gone for "or some such less punishment", it would have saved him a lot of grief in this thread.... ;-) But I think that the King will not need to get involved, Gort will want Monty's blood and will be far more effective. Market Garden was a massive gamble that should have not been taken. This was a criminal disaster that should end in at the very least his being struck from the rolls.

 

[Falastur]

Oh man. I can't believe that all my (numerous) homepages were wiped, and of all the pages I forgot to restore, it should be this one. How stupid was I? Oh well, at least I'm back and caught up, and was only gone for two updates.

Very interesting development, very interesting indeed. I always thought it was a shame that the Paras were ceding the ground they had taken, but not once considered that they might actually find a way to stay still. Fantastic that the RAF moved in at the last moment, though I hope that the fact that half the Para-Panzer (rolls quite neatly off the tongue, that, actually) column is in the process of breaking out, it won't cause too much strategic problems that they now need to about face and return to Naro-Faraminsk (or whatever it's called) to reinforce the rearguard without being cut off or rolled up. I'm also hoping that the break in the weather will allow the second half of the 8 para regiments to drop in quickly, goodness knows that the Para-Panzers need some immediate reinforcement.

Looking forward to hearing what's going on in the rest of the world, too.

 

[unmerged(28944)]

Kurt_Steiner - This is true.... although that would be one heck of a cliff-hanger, eh?

Nathan Madien - I just needed to show a... more human side to our intrepid hero before thrusting him back into Hell. Did it work for you?

Ciryandor - Our Paras are, if nothing else, tenacious to the point of fool-hardiness. However, with the RAF's Strike Command on hand to support with boatloads of munitions and reinforcements enroute via both land and air, this particular tenacity is working out quite well.

Rich028 - While the reality is less grim than it was when Drake was wounded, I'm of a mind that he would much rather be at home in bed with his wife than in the snow on the wilds of Russia with O'Rourke.
And yes, there is an entire four regiment Para army ready to land on Drake and Company's position to prove a point.

El Pip - Many thanks, my friend, although I'm a touch sad that I couldn't get you with a cliff-hanger. As for Monty's trial.... well....

trekaddict - Hey! Quit slum-ming for comments :rofl:

Vann the Red - Thanks much, ol' friend. You request will soon be provided.

GhostWriter - Welcome back my friend! Glad to have you back again! Thanks much and hope to keep you entertained some more soon.

Dinglehoff - Punishment for Monty? Should we put that to a vote?

El Pip (2) - You might be surprised on the charges... while falsifying orders and reports is clearly undeniable, which brings along conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. We shall see what other charges come about... and don't count on an execution being set in stone.

Nathan Madien (2) - I know what ya meant and I thankee for the sentiment! With Monty... it would be sad to see him no longer tossed about, wouldn't it?

Dinglehoff (2) - The forgary is bad... it's the conduct unbecoming that's going to hurt the most, especially within the British Army. And having the bad plans was not the crime, the crime was pushing those plans through by forging that authorization and falsifying reports to Lord Gort's HQ.

El Pip (3) - True, bad habits can be hard to break... but then again, they can be broken, eh? And while the King is personally linked to Drake, there are more than enough links within the rest of the British Army to make things sure the verdict is not wrong.

KiMaSa - As embarrassing as it would be, a court of inquiry and then court martial will have to take place, the disaster is far to well known within the British Army as well as to the Finns to be covered up. While many will probably wish that Monty will bite the bullet (on his own or with help) before things are done, that won't happen due the King's express orders.

Nathan Madien (3) - I was thinking knee or groin, myself.

Lord E - Aye, survival of the Paras was/is very jolly good news. Now it's the turn of the rest of the British Army to inflict some payback, eh?

Dead William - Aye, very true. Things will be quite different for the Para community no matter what the outcome.
I'll take my lumps for not taking the "...or some such less punishment..." choice. I'm thinking it might have made things more interesting storywise that I did take the choices I did.

Falastur - Welcome back, my friend! I was wondering why we hadn't heard from you as of late. Para-Panzer? I do find that rolls off the tongue quite nicely. Very nice. And the rest of the world shall be yours to read about soon.

**

Trying to get the next update ready (i.e. polished up) for posting tomorrow.

Stay tuned!

 

[Derek Pullem]

Surely gross insubordination which can carry the death penalty under the old style code that the British Armed Forces now operate under is sufficient for Monty?

 

[El Pip]

Surely gross insubordination which can carry the death penalty under the old style code that the British Armed Forces now operate under is sufficient for Monty?

If justice was the aim maybe, but from Draco's words this is going to be a show trial at which the book is thrown at Monty and he is made the scapegoat and ritual sacrifice for every failing in the entire endeavour. Hence why Monty will not be given the revolver and bottle of whisky, a show trial of a corpse is a bit much even for the King. At the moment at least... ( )

 

[DHX]

oh come on El Pip, not this again.

 

[unmerged(28944)]

No, Pippy has got a point. My words did make it sound like Monty's trial was going to be nothing more than a show trial... shame on me. I'll try to make it a bit more clear. Even though WE (writAAR and readAAR) KNOW that Monty screwed the pooch on MAGNETO DIADEM and violated several sections of the Articles of War, the British Army must find that out via the court of inquiry and then must prosecute via a court martial. Thus, the trial will be anything but a "show" trial and will be as fair as any (and I mean any, Pip ) trial can be when judged by a jury of your peers. In Monty's case he's screwed due to the facts of the case and equally screwed that he is not despised by a good portion of the British Army's officer corps.

 

[El Pip]

the British Army must find that out via the court of inquiry and then must prosecute via a court martial.

That is a good deal more reasonable, indeed it could through up a few interesting results. Sure Monty will carry ultimate responsibilty (and rightly so) but fiascos are almost never down to just one man, no matter how senior. A fair court should also point out the other officers who should facing censure (or worse), and they can't all be on Monty's staff. Some may even be Paras! ( )

 

[Porkman]

No, Pippy has got a point. My words did make it sound like Monty's trial was going to be nothing more than a show trial... shame on me. I'll try to make it a bit more clear. Even though WE (writAAR and readAAR) KNOW that Monty screwed the pooch on MAGNETO DIADEM and violated several sections of the Articles of War, the British Army must find that out via the court of inquiry and then must prosecute via a court martial. Thus, the trial will be anything but a "show" trial and will be as fair as any (and I mean any, Pip ) trial can be when judged by a jury of your peers. In Monty's case he's screwed due to the facts of the case and equally screwed that he is not despised by a good portion of the British Army's officer corps.

WritAAR and readAAR also know that most of the king's rather undeserved reputation for show trials comes down from having to include one "old guard retires" event story wise. As Monty has high skills and three good traits on his roster I think he has slightly better chances. This is an interesting challenge; does he get a trial where he is found personally culpable of all wrongdoing and pilloried with all due process despite the fact that he would have no shortage of convenient subordinates to pin it on, or does he successfully place the blame lower on the totem pole giving the king a chance to ride in and exact some poetic justice on behalf of his good friend Drake. The first is kind of unrealistic while the second will reignite the autocracy debate, especially after Monty has won a major victory, despite himself. "If it's stupid and it works...." The jury of his peers is still going to have a bunch of WW1 guys and 15,000 casualties to take Moscow is a way better trade than any of them ever made. They'll also likely be the lower half of the great british strategic thinkers the ones on hand, given commands at home while the A listers fight the war.

 

[DHX]

No, Pippy has got a point. My words did make it sound like Monty's trial was going to be nothing more than a show trial... shame on me. I'll try to make it a bit more clear. Even though WE (writAAR and readAAR) KNOW that Monty screwed the pooch on MAGNETO DIADEM and violated several sections of the Articles of War, the British Army must find that out via the court of inquiry and then must prosecute via a court martial. Thus, the trial will be anything but a "show" trial and will be as fair as any (and I mean any, Pip ) trial can be when judged by a jury of your peers. In Monty's case he's screwed due to the facts of the case and equally screwed that he is not despised by a good portion of the British Army's officer corps.

I don't know, after all I assumed a fair trial from the start. Pippy instantly seemed to assume a high chance of a show trial, which follows the Pattern he has of needling you over the decision and actions of the monarchy in this AAR. add to that i understood what you meant when you responded to him in the first place, his response still reads like that 'Knee-jerk' this Monarchy has too much power response he's been on, I don't know if El pip really believes it, or is just playing a role, but all i know is i don't want another repeat of pages and pages of how oppressive the king is.

 

[Nathan Madien]

Nathan Madien - I just needed to show a... more human side to our intrepid hero before thrusting him back into Hell. Did it work for you?

I thought it was well-done.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I don't know, after all I assumed a fair trial from the start. Pippy instantly seemed to assume a high chance of a show trial, which follows the Pattern he has of needling you over the decision and actions of the monarchy in this AAR. add to that i understood what you meant when you responded to him in the first place, his response still reads like that 'Knee-jerk' this Monarchy has too much power response he's been on, I don't know if El pip really believes it, or is just playing a role, but all i know is i don't want another repeat of pages and pages of how oppressive the king is.

With respect, the Loyal Opposition is a major factor which keeps this excellent AAR from drifting into Brit-wank. Besides - it's more fun if there is a contrary view put forward on the political situation. As I said before - the post-war settlement will be almost as much fun as the war itself!

 

[DHX]

With all Respect i disagree to the extent it has that much impact. I think Draco Rexus is smart enough when it was first brought up to be mindful of going to far into britwank territory and does not need the constant 'Loyal opposition'. Call him out on when he Blatantly steps over the line sure, but constantly speculating and assuming he's going to go to far gets grating after a while.

 

[Derek Pullem]

That is a good deal more reasonable, indeed it could through up a few interesting results. Sure Monty will carry ultimate responsibilty (and rightly so) but fiascos are almost never down to just one man, no matter how senior. A fair court should also point out the other officers who should facing censure (or worse), and they can't all be on Monty's staff. Some may even be Paras! ( )

I'm not sure - IIRC the description of the command arrangements made it quite clear that the para operation was not to proceed unless both para generals agreed (which they patently did not and I believe it was implied thet formally recorded their concerns in writing).

Lord Gort made it perfectly clear that if both General Browning and Templer did not fully endorse the operation, both MAGNETO and DIADEM upon their final review, as Supreme Commander of Imperial Forces he would not move forward with the operation.

With a move that eliminated any secrecy as to what we were about, although to be truthful only a blind man would have failed to figure out what was being prepared for, both Para armies were moved from their barracks in Estonia and put into temporary shelters around the aerodromes of Leningrad. Anyone who had even a passing knowledge of our history would have clearly been alerted that another para assault was about to be launched. Generals Templer and Browning reportedly argued against the move, however, after their request reached Montgomery’s ad hoc headquarters, the counter-command that was expected from Lord Gort’s headquarters was never received. That should have, and did, concern those who were aware of the discrepancy but matters quickly moved forward and roughly eight hours later, on November 18, 1941, all eight regiments received orders to transition from a stand-by status to be on alert for embarkation within twelve hours. That evening saw the alert status drop to six hours. Since it would take at least that long to board the transports the change in readiness meant a miserable time for us as every Para making the jump, which meant every combat capable man within the eight regiments, would need to be fully suited from that moment forward. Those of at the battalion level and downward were stunned at the orders as they flew in the face of all normal operating procedures that had been compiled thus far during the war. The word we obtain from sources at the regimental and army level was that Generals Browning and Templer were unable to reach the Dux Bellorum due to operation orders having been changed to have all communication routed through Montgomery’s headquarters. That an army headquarters would need to route any and all information through an ad hoc headquarters commanded by a junior corps commander, while within the ability of the British Army for battlefield operations, had never occurred prior to an operation actually launching. Before our generals could actually leave their own headquarters to reach Lord Gort in person, further orders were received that made such a move prohibitive as word was relayed from Montgomery’s headquarters that the first flight of Para laden aircraft were to lift off just after dawn the next morning, November 20, 1941.

As the sun rose on November 20 to highlight the approach of snow laden clouds from the west, the RAF’s meteorological staff alerted all commands of what the naked eye could clearly see, namely that a heavy storm that was approaching Leningrad and the same storm was also on the path for Moscow. Knowing that such a storm would play havoc with not only the initial jump to the drop zones but more importantly the resupply runs that we were dependent upon, we all breathed easier knowing that the launching of MAGNETO would have to be postponed until after the storm had spent its fury. At six o’clock in the morning, local time, we were mortified to receive orders that the operation was still a go. The strongly worded protests by both General Templer and Browning were responded to with hand signed orders from the Dux Bellorum instructing both generals to launch the attack forthwith.
Unable to argue direct orders, despite the desire to do so, the boarding of the RAF’s de Havilland Albatross transports was sped up, many of us within the regiments doing so for the fifth and sixth time since the start of the war. Yet never before had we done so with such feeling of disquiet.

 

[TheExecuter]

With all Respect i disagree to the extent it has that much impact. I think Draco Rexus is smart enough when it was first brought up to be mindful of going to far into britwank territory and does not need the constant 'Loyal opposition'. Call him out on when he Blatantly steps over the line sure, but constantly speculating and assuming he's going to go to far gets grating after a while.

Yet you doubt that this kind of discussion isn't going on in pubs all over blighty? Pip is merely exercising his rights to speech...and his own opinions about how the monarchy is acting. We don't all have to toe the party line. We are free to entertain our own opinions.

Britons shall never be slaves...

 

[DHX]

you're funny.

 

[Nathan Madien]

Britons shall never be slaves...

...Unless Britons suffer from bad AI in the face of an aggressive player. Then all bets are off.