For A Few Ducats More: Greed and Expansion in the Med (PBEM AAR)

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Had some requests to do this. Since well know what is going on by now, and those requesting had some good maps, I thought it was ok to go ahead. Enjoy

The rest of the world:

 

[Gezeder]

Well, I have to say, WOW to American Savoy!

How much of that is colonised, & how much is conquored off the spanish etc?

Also, on the note of winning, while Savoy seems a clear powerhorse, how are the actual scores going?

Great AAR guys

Gezeder

 

[Storey]

Originally posted by Gezeder
Well, I have to say, WOW to American Savoy!

How much of that is colonised, & how much is conquored off the spanish etc?

Also, on the note of winning, while Savoy seems a clear powerhorse, how are the actual scores going?

Great AAR guys

Gezeder

Savoy is the only one listed on the victory point board.

Joe

 

[Storey]

Byzantium 1677-1684

Well here we are back to Byzantium and I’m pleased to see that I haven’t lost any territory. I have a monarch, Konstantinos XII, who has pretty good stats. I have + 3 stability and 29 % inflation. I have no navy sad to say but I have 25,000 Calvary. No infantry and 2 cannon, Whoopee. I have a tarnished reputation and no diplomats. Being Orthodox is a real pain as far as getting diplomats are concerned. The bad news is that I’m in a war against Portugal, another one against the Knights and Cologne and another one against Poland and Eire. Either my AI is feeling really lucky or the alliance I’m in is full of warmongers! Oh my alliance is composed of Austria, Albania, Genoa and Savoy. Clearly one of the strongest alliances in the game. One additional problem is that war exhaustion is at +3 and growing.

1677 and I have to get out of the wars I’m in. Any territory that I might have wanted to take has already been conquered by one of my allies so I have nothing to gain in these wars. I order two transports just to start on building my navy. I send a personal gift to Austria because our relations were dangerously low. I can’t do anything else except work on my economy for the rest of the year.

1678 and the boredom continues. There are the usual revolts against Savoy but Savoy has a few huge armies that have no problem keeping things under control. My war exhaustion is climbing but I still don’t have a problem with it.

By October 1679 my war exhaustion is at +8 when I pay the Knights 4 ducats for peace. My war exhaustion drops to +5. I didn’t know it would fall if you were still at war with someone else?

1680 and Savoy decides to declare war against the Netherlands. Our alliance joins in the war. Just great another war. I manage to get a white peace with Poland when Austria declares war against someone. At this point I was banging my head on the keyboard and didn’t write down whom we were fighting. My war exhaustion is still climbing.

1681 and I laugh when I notice that Scotland has besieged Rumelia, which is owned by the Knights. Seems that the Knights are still involved in several wars but they have Spain and Portugal in their alliance.

1682 and war exhaustion is at +12 and climbing. I’ve managed to get out of all the wars except for the Netherlands.

Finally in 1683 I’m at peace. So I of course start planning my next war but I notice that my choices are severally limited. Without a navy I’m stuck in the Balkans. The only country available to attack is Bulgaria who is in an alliance so if I DOW them I’m going to need my alliance. However Austria has several leaders right now so I know they are going to steal any sieges that take place. This is turning into a very frustrating turn. I finally face the fact that there isn’t enough time to try to do anything so I improve my fortifications and pass the game on to the next player.

Easily the most frustrating turn for me. Having all of those wars going on when I started prevented me from doing anything of note. I know whine, whine, whine.

 

[Storey]

Originally posted by boehm
well we could always allow the selection of:

thanks to me! we can now also offer:
-the mamelukes
and Tripolitania!

additionally I think that we could allow:

Venice
Papal States
the ottomans (they are small and are way over their golden period)

Sicily
"that french minor who revolted from Savoy!"

perhaps Portugal? although I still think that u should not be allowed to take control of a country stronger than any one of the other human players....how strong is portugal?

Black Sea Minors?

If we are going to add the Ottomans we should also add Genoa. Starting out as a one or two province at this stage of the game is going to be brutal. Maybe Provence although they were just in a war with Savoy and I forget haw it turned out but I don't think Provence won. Hey lets give Rob France! That might slow down Savoy!

Joe

 

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List of countries which should be okay to choose:

Portugal
Genoa
Venice
Sicily
Provence
Aragon
Albania
Mameluks
Tripolantia
Morocco
Ragusa
Papal States
The Ottoman Empire (although I really hesitate to include them....in fact....I would rather have them than Tunisia since

1. They have free CB's on everyone (it wouldn't cost them 4 stab points to take back Egypt and Tripolantia). That was a slick move BTW. I had thought...sure Savoy..take my provinces, they will only revolt away from you or add to my victory percentage in the next war. Giving them away was a slick idea since it will cost me more stab and time to take them back now.

2. They are tough at the negotiating table (not as tough as the Mameluks of course) unlike the pushover that Tunisia is. Make a reasonable peace offer to Tunisia and they will usually accept it. The Ottoman AI can be stubborn which is a good thing for the player.

3. Their techs are higher than the other muslim countries.

4. After knocking out Dulkadir and Armenia (fairly easy), they have a big linked up empire.

5. and most importantly........They will cut through the stupid Tunisian AI like a knife through hot butter if they choose to do so. Of course, they'd make a handy ally too...hmmmm.

Like I said, give them to me.

Anyway, having rambled on forever (a.k.a. a bunch of whining), it is okay if they are chosen. The fortune teller has told me that Tunisia has a fatal condition anyway....stupidity.

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Storey


If we are going to add the Ottomans we should also add Genoa. Starting out as a one or two province at this stage of the game is going to be brutal. Maybe Provence although they were just in a war with Savoy and I forget haw it turned out but I don't think Provence won. Hey lets give Rob France! That might slow down Savoy!

Joe

I thought Genoa had already been approved for the list last time when "someone" had to choose a new country....

just to voice my oppinion! ..."Hey lets give Rob France!" Over my dead body....which it would probably be if anyone took over France....

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Gezeder
Well, I have to say, WOW to American Savoy!

How much of that is colonised, & how much is conquored off the spanish etc?

Also, on the note of winning, while Savoy seems a clear powerhorse, how are the actual scores going?

Great AAR guys

Gezeder

Most of it is colonized....in the begining of the 16th century Savoy won two small colonial wars against England and one against Spain...grabbing from spain its middle american and west-middle-american possession along with a bunch of TPs in the caribian which has since been lost....England was pretty much kicked out of NA...but as can be seen has returned quite nicely on the west coast....the rest is mostly annexed pagans (half-a third converted) or colonies build by savoy...+ a few remaining TPs

the VP race seems to pretty much be between Austria and Savoy....Savoy leading in all catagories except the diplomatic front

 

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Originally posted by Gezeder
Well, I have to say, WOW to American Savoy!

How much of that is colonised, & how much is conquored off the spanish etc?

Also, on the note of winning, while Savoy seems a clear powerhorse, how are the actual scores going?

Great AAR guys

Gezeder

Storey's take on it was pretty accurate....but...here's a little more info

Just a rough estimate based on what has happened since I played last.

Savoy 1 Billion (an evil empire)
Tunisia Around 850 (colonies, 3 CoT's, and a lot of victorious wars...until recently)
Algiers About 200 (lots of victories and colonies but lots of defeats/revolts/etc.)
Byzantium About 200 (not around long enough to rack up the points yet)
The Knights About 100 (lots of victories and lots of losses...but....not really indicitive of true power since each gov't collapse costs 100 vp's)

 

[Storey]

Originally posted by Backpack
List of countries which should be okay to choose:

Portugal
Genoa
Venice
Sicily
Provence
Aragon
Albania
Mameluks
Tripolantia
Morocco
Ragusa
Papal States
The Ottoman Empire (although I really hesitate to include them....in fact....I would rather have them than Tunisia since

1. They have free CB's on everyone (it wouldn't cost them 4 stab points to take back Egypt and Tripolantia). That was a slick move BTW. I had thought...sure Savoy..take my provinces, they will only revolt away from you or add to my victory percentage in the next war. Giving them away was a slick idea since it will cost me more stab and time to take them back now.

2. They are tough at the negotiating table (not as tough as the Mameluks of course) unlike the pushover that Tunisia is. Make a reasonable peace offer to Tunisia and they will usually accept it. The Ottoman AI can be stubborn which is a good thing for the player.

3. Their techs are higher than the other muslim countries.

4. After knocking out Dulkadir and Armenia (fairly easy), they have a big linked up empire.

5. and most importantly........They will cut through the stupid Tunisian AI like a knife through hot butter if they choose to do so. Of course, they'd make a handy ally too...hmmmm.

Like I said, give them to me.

Anyway, having rambled on forever (a.k.a. a bunch of whining), it is okay if they are chosen. The fortune teller has told me that Tunisia has a fatal condition anyway....stupidity.

Okay take the Ottomans off the list. Your probably right that they are too strong.

Joe

 

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No, I think they should stay. I just wanted to whine about it so that when I lose my butt I can say I told you so.

If we all play little powerless countries which are unable to threaten each other, then the game gets boring pretty quickly. I PM'ed you and boehm asking for your thoughts on where we should take this next...and...I'll pose the same question to the readers out there now:

I'm not throwing in the towel in any way shape or form....just thinking out loud for a minute:

Is the MP PBEM worth continuing (as fun as playing on your own) if we each just go off in pursuit of our own thing?....or....do the players need to interact to make it interesting?

Basically, do I need to attack another human player (or plan to in the future) for the game to remain a worthwhile endeavor...or is each of us motoring along doing their own thing and not picking on each other okay?

 

[Storey]

Originally posted by Backpack
No, I think they should stay. I just wanted to whine about it so that when I lose my butt I can say I told you so.

If we all play little powerless countries which are unable to threaten each other, then the game gets boring pretty quickly. I PM'ed you and boehm asking for your thoughts on where we should take this next...and...I'll pose the same question to the readers out there now:

I'm not throwing in the towel in any way shape or form....just thinking out loud for a minute:

Is the MP PBEM worth continuing (as fun as playing on your own) if we each just go off in pursuit of our own thing?....or....do the players need to interact to make it interesting?

Basically, do I need to attack another human player (or plan to in the future) for the game to remain a worthwhile endeavor...or is each of us motoring along doing their own thing and not picking on each other okay?

It’s the interaction that I find interesting in the PBEM game. Since I don't have Naples any more I'll give my strategy for the game. I planned to unite Italy and then take a look around and decide if I had to take on a human player. Boehm and I had a general agreement of where our spheres of influence were and maybe or maybe not we would have kept the peace for the entire game. The odds were that Boehm and I would clash but imagine my surprise when Rob came along and kicked my butt. That was the turning point for the game in that the only human controlled country of any strength that was close to Savoy was removed as a threat, which put Boehm in the drivers seat. Well that and his colonial empire. Truth be told I don't know if I would have survived a war with Savoy. If the Knights could destroy Naples how do you think Savoy would have done? Now Rob and I have an uneasy truce but it looks like he is going to choose another country so who knows what's next. It’s still an interesting game. Lets see what happens for another 50 to 100 years.

Joe

 

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Yes, my Italian expedition was a risky venture... but you and Boehm just looked so cosy and ready to play out the game with a united Italy and a Savoyard America, I had to shake things up. Unfortunately, Savoy did the smart thing, and did not let me consolidate my gains.

I updated my AAR...

I am also fine with playing on a while longer... without keeping an eye on the other players I think it would get boring, but I think Savoy can still at least be competed against, if all other four players side against the evil hegemon.

 

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Originally posted by Storey

...If the Knights could destroy Naples how do you think Savoy would have done? Now Rob and I have an uneasy truce but it looks like he is going to choose another country so who knows what's next. It’s still an interesting game. Lets see what happens for another 50 to 100 years.
Joe

Hmmm...if he takes the Ottomans, neither you nor I will be sleeping easy. I agree with playing on. Just wanted to touch base with everyone else.

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Ludovico

I am also fine with playing on a while longer... without keeping an eye on the other players I think it would get boring, but I think Savoy can still at least be competed against, if all other four players side against the evil hegemon.

EVIL?? - it wasnt I who brutally attacked and sacked the fabled city of Nables....rather I am the protector of the innocent and downtrodden...was it not I ...I who liberated the egyptians and tripolitanians from the tunesian yoke and gave them their freedom....while at the same time I have spendt considerable time and resources to spread the true gospel in the new world while at the same time teaching the vile pagans how to behave like humans and brush their teeth every evening before going to bed!

Savoy, protector of the innocent and champion of civilisation!

claus

ps: ....yeah I think we should play on...also even though we dont interact THAT much in direct warfare there is still the threat...and also the other humans bring an "unknown" element into the game which a normal SP doesnt have....and actually I LIKE a nice friendly game where NOONE gangs up on "whoever" just happens to lead at a given time

 

[Raul The Runt]

I'm Back!

Wow - I go on vacation for a week, and the world turns inside-out. Nice start against Savoy, Backpack. Now I just need to figure out when my next turn is.

 

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Re: I'm Back!

Originally posted by Raul The Runt
Wow - I go on vacation for a week, and the world turns inside-out. Nice start against Savoy, Backpack. Now I just need to figure out when my next turn is.

I threw a pretty good right hook to start things out but he caught me with a nasty uppercut. Tunisia is a little weak in the knees now.

 

[Duuk]

Please, for the sake of all of us, continue this game.

Even if you NEVER interacted in more than a cursory way, it would still be much, much different from a single player game, because the other humans are, during their turns, doing what they perceive to be in their best interests. And sometimes, those interests are something the AI would never consider (Mameluks being freed come to mind here).

If someone wants to drop out, I'd be happy to jump in and select one of the small, pathetic nations.

Duuk

 

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Tunisia 1684-1691

Aruj,

My brother I am sorry to report that the Sultan was wise to my plans to fight Savoy regardless of what he decided. The situation in 1684 was not pretty. As you know we had been spilt apart by that dreaded Boehm VII (or is it VIII now I lose track). He had taken our territories and instated a pair of puppet Sultans in Tripolantia and Egypt. The Mameluk Sultan, Muhammed something, was the most kowtowing of spineless lackeys. I refer to him as the Shark Man of Egypt; no spine, all cartilage. I begged the Sultan to attack these countries and then go after Savoy.

However, that dirty rotten SOB who runs Tunisia had other plans. In the years prior to 1684, he sent me to Isfahan along with my entire fleet of 58 ships. In the Med there was nothing, not one ship. That was not his sneakiest maneuver. He also disbanded the vast majority of our army leaving us with only 20,000 men in Jordan (which had no way of getting to Alexandria, Sardinia, Tangiers, or Tunisia proper since the ships were all with me). Oh…but that is just the tip of the iceberg. He also dropped the country’s stability to zero and got us into an alliance with the mighty…hah mighty….one province wonderboys known as the Papal States, our loving vassals. I think the Powerpuff Girls could put up more of a fight than those clowns. They were thrilled to be hanging out with us though and thought of us as the closest of their friends. Nubia allies with Byzantium. Wow, take a look at the religious map. Tunisia is the meat in an Orthodox sandwich.

We did have 868 ducats in the treasury and six colonists which hadn’t been dispatched. Sadly, all but one of our diplomats had been fired and the screening criteria for new hires was very rigorous. It only resulted in about one or two additions per year depending on whether or not we were at war. There was only one question that had to be answered on the application form, “Are you willing to go to a foreign land, insult their king, and have your head cut off after being tortured for many days?” Funny, our state department handed out tons of those forms but only ever got a few back.

So anyway, it’s 1684 and I’m off in Isfahan. I immediately order the return of 35 ships to Tunisia. It’s a long journey around the entire continent of Africa with no port visits. The crew is not happy and the trip takes more than a year. I console the men by telling tales of how incredibly beautiful the women are in all of the countries we are not stopping in. I’m a real stand-up type of guy. Always looking out for the troops best interests.

When I finally arrive in Tangiers, I receive some bad news. Austria declared war on us back in January. Savoy also sends us a warning. Like the full scale invasion of Africa a few years back wasn’t a warning. Yeah, I know you don't like us, go away so I can read the rest of these boxes, I’ve got other problems, okay?, *click*.

Luckily the Sultan immediately began to recruit men, boys, camels with bad attitudes, and anything else that could swing a sword or spit with vengeance. The Austrians invade, decimate, and annex The Papal States. Good riddance. We quickly join an alliance with The Ottoman Empire and Dulkadir. The expansion of our colonies is going well and we actually build 2 new colonies in Newfoundland (this is a major accomplishment when you receive .60 colonists per year). We are unable to prevent Savoy from building a colony on the other province in Newfoundland.

Entering the Ottoman alliance brings us into their war with Delhi. Maybe taking the majority of our warships out of the Persian Gulf was a bad idea. Transports are all that remain there now to ferry troops from Basrah to Isfahan since we have no land access. We land and builds troops in Isfahan as quickly as possible. This pays off as we defeat Dehli about 20 times over the next three years before they accept our more than generous peace offer.

After eating the cream puff Papal States, Austria turns its attention to invading Tunisia. We repulse them several times and finally reach peace in 1686. Now we just need to resolve that war with Delhi since the ole war exhaustion is starting to climb. Portugal is annexed by Spain this year.

Four months before we get Delhi to agree to peace, The Netherlands wants to get froggy and sends us a DoW. We also get unhappy peasants the same month. Crikey, I cannot believe the bad luck. All I want is a day of peace so I can drop the hammer on the Mams and Trip. The Knights make peace with Tangiers in 1687.

It’s mid 1688, and the Dutch invade in Isfahan with 24,000 and Tangiers with 6,000. We drive them out of both areas – barely. This looks like it is going to go on forever and 1691 is getting closer. I decide to say, “what the heck” and declare war on the Mameluks and Tripolantia despite not having peace. This causes several revolts (-6 stab for now CB's and same religion). The next day the Dutch send us a peace offer…those bums. Why I oughta!

Anyway, both pretender nations are annexed by 1690. Stab is back up to +3 when we get unhappy peasants again (-2). Looks like I am about done for now. The Knights make peace with Sweden for 200 ducats, euros, dollars, dracma, or whatever funny money they use in Rhodes these days.

I am sitting on a large pile of cash, several thousand, but don’t have the diplomats or colonists to use it the way I want to. I use my one guy to send Al-Djazir a state gift which brings our relations up to –136. I have let Kablyia be taken by revolutionaries since this is the province which has been driving our relations down. Hopefully it will revolt away to you soon. I use the rest of my money to build a refinery, attempt to convert Sardinia again, and build forts all over the place.

Well Aruj that is all of the rambling and venomous bitterness that these ink-stained hands can write down on paper for one evening,

Hizir

*Images from http://fotw.digibel.be/flags/
pirate flag by antonio martins, 1998-OCT-29



Good luck boehm. Don’t let the “tone” of my post throw you off. I actually had a lot of fun this round. I’d like to kick my AI’s arse though.

Thanks Duuk. I wasn't planning on bagging out...just wanted to touch base with the others and our readers to get their thoughts. Thanks again for giving feedback.

 

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Good update backpack. Just one thing worried me Portugal was annexed Can I choose Spain now?