For A Few Ducats More: Greed and Expansion in the Med (PBEM AAR)

[Gezeder]

Backpack, I'm in Ludovico's other (one of?) PBEM, Love's Labour's Lost,

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41238

It's interesting too, because I'd never played an Italian nation before, I was sort of basing my strategies on what Storey was doing..... I'm trying to break away from that now!

Ours is moving a little more slowly than yours - we started all over europe, so the empires might get a bit bigger before fighting (with the Mameluks next door in turkey I sure hope so!!)

Man, these PBEM's are great aren't they

Gezeder

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Gezeder

It's interesting too, because I'd never played an Italian nation before, I was sort of basing my strategies on what Storey was doing..... I'm trying to break away from that now!


Man, these PBEM's are great aren't they

Gezeder

What happened to Storey was possible because we play some real minor countries which means they only have very few core provinces ...which again means that they are much easier to take apart since (atleast I think so!) the ai values these provinces at about double value.....and with 7 year turns giving the time to do a double punch ei. war-peace-war...and the fact that u can have a double turn...well its a wonder that we havent all been killed yet!

Actually if we play another game after this one I would like to suggest that we either ban the breaking of a Truce against other human players...or better; that we ban the breaking of a truce if the previous truce was signed during your own turn AND provinces was traded! (yeah it sounds complicated but its just to avoid people speculating in tying each other up in truces made in the end of their turn....AND still prevent a "double-punch" like that against Naples.....or in the case of the previous game Spain...poor Storey! )

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Backpack

Aruj,

... Every day I am forced to listen to his fears about how Tunisia shall be dismembered, how Tunisia has no chance without the others, how we shall exist merely for the amusement of Boehm VII of Savoy.

Hizir

just began my turn,

ok First thing to do...edit the save game file to change the name of my present monarch to Boehm VII

 

[unmerged(7996)]

Originally posted by boehm
that we ban the breaking of a truce if the previous truce was signed during your own turn AND provinces was traded!

That is a very good idea.

 

[Gezeder]

Originally posted by boehm

that we ban the breaking of a truce if the previous truce was signed during your own turn AND provinces was traded!

Yoink! Think I'll email that out to my oppenents for discussion in our game, good idea!

Gezeder

 

[Storey]

Originally posted by boehm


Actually if we play another game after this one I would like to suggest that we either ban the breaking of a Truce against other human players...or better; that we ban the breaking of a truce if the previous truce was signed during your own turn AND provinces was traded! (yeah it sounds complicated but its just to avoid people speculating in tying each other up in truces made in the end of their turn....AND still prevent a "double-punch" like that against Naples.....or in the case of the previous game Spain...poor Storey! )

I agree that the war-peace-war tactic is proving too powerful. I did it against the Knights my last trun and even without setting the sliders with my new country I was able to recover stability before my turn ran out. Just saying you can't declare war twice on the same human player in one turn should be enough to solve that problem. This alows you to break a truce, which should be an option, but not exploit it to the point that it distorts the game. What do you think?

Oh and I agree "poor Storey". All I wanted was to get along with everyone.

Joe

 

[unmerged(7996)]

I like the no breaking of a truce you started rule since this keeps you from beating up too much on one nation. It also lets you break a truce if someone else who went before you tries to ram a truce down your throat. You can still break it those.

I declare war more than once per turn many times....but....never against the same target (i.e. DoW Mameluks, then DoW Iraq, etc.)

 

[boehm]

Savoy 1663-1670

January 1663: Savoy is as usual in a war against some NA tribe this time the Creek. However what is most unusual is that everything else is quite good we have a stability of +2, 2200 ducats in our treasury…and a quite large army and navy…

The first year was spend preparing our forces and we also needed to end our war with the Creek which was getting quite unpopular especially in our colonies…finally in December same year we were able to reach a settlement with the Creek whereby the surrendered unconditionally…this end was widely popular and removed all fears of war from the minds of my gentle subjects (+1 stability and end of war exhaustion which had reached +2/+4)

And NOW IT IS TIME FOR RETRIBUTION!! ….hmm taking a look at the intelligence coming our way from Provence, Piedmonte and Lombardy it seems that the Tunisian commander has either made a brilliant strategic withdrawal OR that he has made a horrific blunder and disbanded his men….the news from our spies are just almost unbelievable 7 months before there were almost 70k Tunisian troops in these provinces and now there are NONE! – let the war begin, let the Tunisians feel the wrath of Savoy let them kneel to our great king Boehm VII!!

On the 6th of December 1663 Savoy declares war on Tunisia and Venice!…Tunisia’s allies Aden, Algiers and Dulkadir immediately join the war against Savoy.

In July `64 I manage to buy off the last of Tunesia´s allies…offering 75d to Algiers for peace since I have no wish to make this a broader fight of Christianity against Islam, but rather a war of the civilised against the barbarous aggression and terror spread by Tunisia. – “Savoy has no quarrels with the people of Tunesia only with the dictator and self-proclaimed leader of the arab world ,,,the Mongrel of Tunis”

Finally in November `64 our war “On Terror” meets with its first great success when Tunis falls to our elite Acadia Regiment. Upon searching the premises of the houses of the Tunisian elite we come upon documents hinting at a world wide conspiracy to cast down the proud house of Savoy…we are shocked to learn that Tunisia has managed to erect a major secret base on the up until now only legendary continent of Au-sala-stralia-bin (Australia)…as a direct consequence of this we immediately start conscripting troops in Niassa and our red sea fleet is dispatched …

And then our monarch went insane!

March `66 the war is going well province after province is falling to the superior Savoyian forces…then suddenly Austria cowardly attack Savoy!! This cowardly strike against US the champions of the free world forces us to a temporary halt in our war against tunesian terror…and in July `66 Tunisia accept our demands after having declined them once caused great uneasiness (-1 stability for refusing a peace offer at 88% when I had 99%)…Tunisia accept to cede Provence, Piedmonte and Lombardiet to Savoy…additionally Egypt and Tripolitania gain their independence under the guarantee of Savoy (got them and immediately released them as vassals)

December `66 DAMN…seem people don’t like us much, now we are attacked by the Netherlands and allies! ….and then England attack us! (along with its allies) – so now we start the long road of buying off people…in February `67 125d to England and 150d to the Netherlands, …in June 73d to Venice and 53d to Byzantium…although I had just offered them 125d?? hmm In July after loosing a few major battles and having witnessed its allies desert its cause Austria offers Mantua and Tyrol to Savoy….we accept! J and now Savoy is once more at peace!

Time roll on and suddenly its January 1st 1670…and Savoy is now allied to Byzantium and Austria…(in a desperate bid to NOT get into war with Austria OR even worse having my ai ally itself with Egypt and Tripolitania)

Tune in next time for the continuing and exiting WAR ON “tunesian” TERROISM! – the sequel now with even more bang for the buck!

SAVOY…WE (no longer) COME (entirely) IN PEACE!

 

[Storey]

Austria has certainly been an important player for Savoy, Naples while it lasted and Byzantium. Well it looks like the gloves are off and the players have come out swinging. I think Ludovico is now up to the plate for his at bat.

Joe

 

[unmerged(7996)]

Re: Savoy 1663-1670

Originally posted by boehm
taking a look at the intelligence coming our way from Provence, Piedmonte and Lombardy it seems that the Tunisian commander has either made a brilliant strategic withdrawal OR that he has made a horrific blunder and disbanded his men….the news from our spies are just almost unbelievable 7 months before there were almost 70k Tunisian troops in these provinces and now there are NONE!

What has the world come to? I understand not being able to rely upon the actions of other nations...but...my own commanders?...scandalous.

Nice job boehm. I will try to make a retaliatory strike...uhhh...after I'm done mopping my guts up off of the floor of course.

 

[Storey]

Don't worry Backpack. I was in bigger trouble as Spain and I still kicked Boehm's French butt. At least I think so, I don't remember things very well since that fight. Too many hits to the head.

Joe

 

[unmerged(6618)]

Ok peeps, I have run into a problem somewhat through my turn... I am getting random dows! Denmark, Sweden, etc... and this is on hard! I can send out the savegame that I played... but I now consider the Knights officially defunct. It has gotten to the point where I cannot legitimately play them. So here are the options as I see it

1. Scratch what I have played so far. The reason I suggest this is that soon into my turn I realized the Knights were goners. I still attempted to play out my turn, but I pretty well knew my new found possessions (whatever they may be), were only for the sake of influencing world politics, and not anything I could reasonably hope to secure. It wasn't "take 5 loans and go after X", but it was "try and do what you can. i am going to die anyways, might as well die trying". And although I tried my best, Denmark and Poland seemed angered...
Sub-decisions
a. Just let Storey go in 1670
b. Let me pick a new country in 1670 and play
c. Let the AI play the 7 years

2. Let my current turn stand, but let me play a new country when my turn renews

3. Damn Ludovico! He got himself into this mess, he will have to get himself out. Keep Playing the fated Knights!

1 b would be nicest , although 2 or 1 a may be the most fair. I figure 2 might be the default option, but I figured I should get things out in the open for others to decide.

I'll update once the decision is made. Exactly what happened I'd rather not share, so as not to influence other's opinions.

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Ludovico

1. Scratch what I have played so far.
a. Just let Storey go in 1670
b. Let me pick a new country in 1670 and play
c. Let the AI play the 7 years

2. Let my current turn stand, but let me play a new country when my turn renews

3. Damn Ludovico! He got himself into this mess, he will have to get himself out. Keep Playing the fated Knights!

I would say 1a.....if a player truly believe his country is a DEAD and he wants to defect to another country he should forfeit his turn as not to unduly influence the game with some kind of suicide all or nothing.....not that Im saying that what Ludovico did...but just the principle

claus

 

[unmerged(6618)]

For the record, my vote is for #2. But since changing countries after I had my turn might be a little off, I thought I'd bring it up for discussion. My turn did not start as a suicide mission, but I know how the ai handles things... so my gains will be gone and the knights are no more fun

 

[unmerged(7996)]

Originally posted by boehm


...as not to unduly influence the game with some kind of suicide all or nothing.....

You calling Ludovico a suicide bomber? Yikes!

Seriously, I think 1a and 1b are the best choices. Either one of those would be okay with me. I don't see a problem with 1b if you gave up the ghost immediately.

 

[Storey]

My two cents is that if you play a turn you have to stick with it (choice 2). When your turns comes around again you can choose another country to play. This can get sticky if someone decides to self distruct and take someone with them but it doesn't sound like that was what you tried to do. So when your next turn comes up select another country. However I think that it needs to be clear that you don't have the option of staying with the Knights once you make the choice. Just uncase you come back to the game and find that they have conquered the Med. Should we come up with a list of avalible countries? Since I have had the pleasure of doing this I can say that starting over is not easy to do and maybe we need to expand the choices just a little.

Joe

 

[boehm]

well we could always allow the selection of:

thanks to me! we can now also offer:
-the mamelukes
and Tripolitania!

additionally I think that we could allow:

Venice
Papal States
the ottomans (they are small and are way over their golden period)

Sicily
"that french minor who revolted from Savoy!"

perhaps Portugal? although I still think that u should not be allowed to take control of a country stronger than any one of the other human players....how strong is portugal?

Black Sea Minors?

 

[Duuk]

Woo Sicily!

Imagine the mafia AAR!

Duuk

 

[unmerged(6618)]

1670 - 1677

The beginnings of 1670 were full of bad signs from the Heavens. Floods and famines ruled our lands. Rhodes, as a center of a once mighty Empire, had lost her lustre quickly. Italy, and our riches, were gone. Yet I commanded an army of 30, 000 strong. We had enough years to make a small convoy navy, and bring her to bear wherever we wished.

On January 4, 1670, the growing sect of the Orthodox Greeks, the newly appointed Byzantium, declared war. The strongest alliance seen in Europe in years followed. Spain and Portugal honoured our alliance, yet Hungary and Genoa did not. Genoa would in fact change sides. Merchants have always been an ugly sort, yet their dissapearance was a signal that Rhodes no longer had the wealth to attract the petty.

Spain quickly settled for peace with Savoy for 50 ducats, and we were in tough. Yet our navy was approaching Italy.

Elsewhere Tunisia had declared war on Songhai. The Pope had dishonoured her alliance with Tunisia over this reckless decision.

After winning numerous battles in Italy, and conquering Naples, Marche, and Siena, Savoy finally offered peace. We gained Nipigon, the Everglades, Saguenay, Michilimakinak, Massachussetts, and Adirondak. All, however, were small trading posts.

War was then redeclared on Savoy. Spain once again joined in the war... but our earlier fortunes were not to be repeated. A generation of Rhodesians were lost on the soils of Italy. War still flared between the Knights and numerous countries. Including far off Sweden. Our continental lands were all under the possession of foreign monarchs.

A great grandmaster, retired from ruling duty, had followed our men into the fields of Italy. It was to evoke the spirits of our men, to show the nature of true courage in the face of death. Yet it was not in hand to hand combat that his valour was proven. Struck fatally by a wayward arrow, the last great grandmaster of Rhodes calmly wrote the line of a Roman poet on his blood soaked cloth. In so doing, he strengthened all the lost souls in Rhodes that were heading toward unresistable death...

The hour which gave us life leads to its end.

 

[boehm]

Originally posted by Ludovico
Anyways, it seems as though common consensus is that #2 is ok. Boehm might have a little objection, but as you can see from the savegame it was not a suicide mission...

nahh, I dont have a problem at all....i

Im cool with it all