Food is now obsolete and should be removed from game

[LeanneKaos]

When I started this thread I made an argument about food as a game mechanic, but people still derail it into "pops need food because that's what they eat". So why don't we have to manage water supply supply, then? It is also essential, but we don't have "water income" and "water stockpile".

Could be interesting; I know Offworld Trading Company does, though that's more of an economic RTS than a 4x or grand strategy game. I'd feel bad for whoever tried to rebuild the balance around it if they inserted it into Stellaris, though. We'd have people wanting to tie production to planet types (so tundra/ocean would produce more, and arid or desert worlds would produce less) which would in turn skew decisions on homeworld preference... so maybe it's an idea that belongs in a new game built from scratch to accommodate the idea.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

When I started this thread I made an argument about food as a game mechanic, but people still derail it into "pops need food because that's what they eat". So why don't we have to manage water supply supply, then? It is also essential, but we don't have "water income" and "water stockpile".

Because it's probably included in the "food" resource.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

Now, that's not to say you haven't raised some points about food not being more interactive or affecting of the game. If you have rampant piracy or planets blockaded there should be some issues when food isn't produced locally. A simple effect for blockades would be to just have a planet under blockade contribute 0 to empire pools. Or have some scaling slider based on infrastructure/strength of garrison vs blockading fleet power. Logistic loss based on trade would be a bit harder. You could do something simple like "all resources are collected at the capitol" like trade value is, and any % of trade value from a planet to the capital that's lost would be the same % loss on resources generated by that planet. But that doesn't simulate non-capital worlds getting cut off from supplies. I think it would be hard to get right, but if you could it would give wide empires another thing to contend with. Either they ignore it and the efficiency of their empire takes a significant hit, or they deal with it and spend resources and time protecting trade.

Yeah, i think with Trade, the game misses this kind of logistic system.

Every resource should be tied locally, and then shared via automatic trade routes. If something blocks the trade, the empire starts to collapse because EVERY resource stops reaching some planet. Piracy could be an overall % of "trade security", with a convoy/escort system similar to the HoI one (that is both easy to master, gameplay-smart and still be made very significant), while hostile fleets can cut single trade routes altogather.

This way, blockading an Agri-World or simply parking your fleet in a chokepoint in the middle of an enemy empire can effectively be a strategic move. You coul ruin an empire without invading a single world. But that would be probably unbalance the game, i fear. I'd still like this system, though.

 

[Ryika]

When I started this thread I made an argument about food as a game mechanic, but people still derail it into "pops need food because that's what they eat".

There have been quite a few people who agreed earlier in this thread that food is somewhat boring right now and should be improved mechanically, they've even made quite a few suggestions on how to do that. You've completely ignored them and instead decided to argue with people who make "immersion"-focused arguments. How can you be surprised that the direction you as the OP of the thread, and the one primarily representing one side of the argument, is paying attention to is the direction the thread is going?

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

The way it is stockpiled and traded iskind of bonkers. I would think an empire would seek to ensure its planets were self sufficient.

It is easy to build up huge surpluses. Would there really be a market for large quantities of surplus food.

Yes there would be a market, but surely for limited volumes of luxury foods.

Though if you're trading with the prawns (District 9) there'd be quite a demand for cat food . . .

I agree. I don't even understand how food can be exported - we are talking aliens here, they are probably unable to eat whatever my chosen race is eating.

And very much agree on self sufficient planets. I Always aim to make my Worlds self sufficient.

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

Oh, it just makes it worse. Not only you would have to do much more micromanagement, but it also feels wrong for any country but hivemind. Just imagine some president saying "You must eat 25% more and make more babies". Although it makes sense for gestalt consciousness.

You mean just like a whole bunch of leaders have done here on good old Earth through the ages? ;-)

The most obvious example being Hitler, who literally asked his people to make more Babies. But he was neither the first nor the last. Here in Sweden a prime minister said something similar a few years back.

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

You are either not reading what I'm writing or are being deliberately obstinate, because what I'm saying is that stockpiling food is not a practice that is or has ever been in decline. I can't put it much more bluntly. Countries all over the planet to this day maintain strategic reserves of all kinds of food to deploy when there are shortages. That is exactly what happens in Stellaris. You have a stockpile of food, and then something happens and your net food income goes negative because there is a shortage, and so you draw out of the stockpile to supplement what is produced. This happens now just as much as ever, and there is literally no reason whatsoever that it should stop happening just because we made it to space.

Actually, quite the contrary… in space, you have the best food-preserve ever: vacuum. Space is the ultimate Deep-freeze for all your food-hoarding needs!! ;-)

 

[Dorian Ertymexx]

Interesting read, this thread. I was actually thinking about starting a slightly related thread, about how food some Technologies seem "missing" in the game, like reprocessing surplus food into ore, or ore into energy and/or food. Similar Buildings as the ones that the machine empires have that process food into energy.

Personally, I would scrap food trade entirely. Partially because it is so cheesily simple to just hoard it for trade, but also due to the sci-fi genre: what are the odds that any other Alien race has the same dietary requirements that my own chosen race has? Just consider us Earthlings: I love chocolate, but give it to a dog or a cat, and they might die from it. Now imagine someone from a completely different planet tasting it - what are the odds that it gives the creature sustenance, let alone doesn't act as a poison?

That aside, I really like the ideas some have aired about blockades and such. And special events that influence food on individual planets.

 

[Harle]

Do you people even play this game? Colonizable worlds that are of the same subtype as your main planet already have 20% habitability penalties and you have to research new technologies to get 5% habitability bonuses.

Gaia worlds are a thing, friendo

So are ecumenopolis worlds and ring worlds

All three give 100% habitability, and you can get a free colonizable ecumenopolis through one of the pregenitor questlines, so yes it's possible to colonize a planet and immediately get 100% habitability under a bunch of scenarios.

And then there's the legitimate example of just raising habitability through technology that you mentioned, which like, I dunno why you said that like it somehow didn't count.

But you're going to try to whip out a 'do you even play?!?!?!' response. Okay buddy.