Food as resource?

[Ithron]

What about expulsion of the Jews and Berbers from Spain in Eu2 and Eu3? This is pretty allowed for some reason...

And compare this to Civ games that have no problem having cities nuked over and over again with population getting smaller and smaller (not that I think that such bombings are ok). I dont think they have any trouble selling their games in Germany, Japan, etc..

 

[Inner Circle]

Paradox is setting the Rules here nothing we can do about

 

[Cybvep]

Paradox is setting the Rules here nothing we can do about

That's why you could introduce e.g. food giving BONUSES and "rationing" that would decrease them.

 

[Vaximillian]

Paradox is setting the Rules here nothing we can do about

This. ^^

 

[Ithron]

Paradox is setting the Rules here nothing we can do about

Yes, but Rules DO allow to convert excess food into bonuses. There will be no starvation or anything, only bonuses to those countries that can afford (via trade, occupation, free convoy routes) to keep population well supplied. And starvation IS anyways already a not just event in game, but a policy and mechanics. What happens with the army when it doesnt recieve supplies..? It gets attrition. And here, with food, we dont even suggest having any kind of attrition or malus or damage to society - none. Only that it gets happier and more productive when it doesnt have to ration the food. And food should be a separate resource from supplies, because while to do their duty during the warfare soldiers need both - bullets and food, the rest of population need only food. It doesnt seem that you would be reading, only replying to the title of the thread..

 

[unmerged(47302)]

Why not just simply asking a limit to supply stockpile?
We need some abstraction to keep the game esay enough to be played by more than one guy.

And a limit to stockpile would give to supplies a "food" flavour and also increase convoy raiding effectiveness or obliges more players to do some choices.

 

[Ithron]

Re-read the actual rules, couldn't find any mentioning of starvations or food at all. While Holocaust and systematic purges are forbidden, deportations, unsystematic purges and starvations are not mentioned and/or are already present in the game (unsystematic purges - the great purge in SU; starvations of soldiers have been in Hoi2 from the very beginning; and even swastika has been tolerated for several major mods for a long time). Thus, it would seem that not just the bonuses system is fully acceptable, but if one wished, even actual starvations can be included (personally I'm not sure they should, but it doesnt seem right to talk about rules that actually do not forbid this).

 

[Ithron]

Why not just simply asking a limit to supply stockpile?
We need some abstraction to keep the game esay enough to be played by more than one guy.

And a limit to stockpile would give to supplies a "food" flavour and also increase convoy raiding effectiveness or obliges more players to do some choices.

And what to do with countries that had agrarian economy and had no problem feeding the population but had problems supplying the army?
And what to do with Germany that didnt have problems supplying the warfare materials but had problems feeding its population on pre-war, non-rationing (to decrease the level of anti-war sentiments) level?

 

[Fulmen]

What about expulsion of the Jews and Berbers from Spain in Eu2 and Eu3? This is pretty allowed for some reason...

There are also similar events for Jews in CK.

Re-read the actual rules, couldn't find any mentioning of starvations or food at all. While Holocaust and systematic purges are forbidden, deportations, unsystematic purges and starvations are not mentioned and/or are already present in the game (unsystematic purges - the great purge in SU; starvations of soldiers have been in Hoi2 from the very beginning; and even swastika has been tolerated for several major mods for a long time). Thus, it would seem that not just the bonuses system if fully acceptable, but if one wished, even actual starvations can be included (personally I'm not sure they should, but it doesnt seem right to talk about rules that actually do not forbid this).

This.

 

[Ithron]

Would it be possible to get reply on this from devs concerning the introduction of food resource that gives only bonuses and having lack of food - no maluses? Relying here on rules seem to be wrong.

 

[secretalex125]

Guys, what the heck. Its a wargame, not Uncle Barnie's Farm. What the.

Too much micromanagement. I just want a more modable Arma with a better map and some extra features(map resolution, better speed, etc.)

If there would be new features, I'd like a button to stop using them. Period.

 

[Ithron]

Guys, what the heck. Its a wargame, not Uncle Barnie's Farm. What the.

Too much micromanagement. I just want a more modable Arma with a better map and some extra features(map resolution, better speed, etc.)

If there would be new features, I'd like a button to stop using them. Period.

I'm sorry to say, no offence, but your needs are quite low (which definitely can be a good thing ). You would actually be willing to pay for game that adds only few command lines in the exe file and cosmetic changes for the map?..

 

[Fulmen]

Too much micromanagement. I just want a more modable Arma with a better map and some extra features(map resolution, better speed, etc.)

Not all of us consider even stock AoD "too much micromanagement". :rofl: We want more!

 

[Cybvep]

What kind of micromanagement adding another resource would add?

 

[secretalex125]

I'm sorry to say, no offence, but your needs are quite low (which definitely can be a good thing ). You would actually be willing to pay for game that adds only few command lines in the exe file and cosmetic changes for the map?..

Yes.

Not all of us consider even stock AoD "too much micromanagement". :rofl: We want more!

Go and buy HOI3 with Semper Fi and be happy.

@Cyber dude: Look, I don't know how many of you know, but we can't know AT ALL what was the situation of armies back in 1936 because THAT WOULD MEAN A SHITSTORM OF RESEARCH.

That's 1. 2, quality of food depends from state to state. We don't know that as well.
3. Too much micromanagement because:
-You should take care of armies individually(which is annoying)
-You should take care of stockpiles, roads, etc.

Now, if you mean just splitting food from "supplies" thing, I find it kinda useless. Why? It happens to be low on supplies, hell, only if some people kinda...how should I say it. Cheat? and have 100000 supplies and then they just scream "I want food, clothes and ammo instead of supplies". Most of them never experienced a army without supplies. And if they did, they didn't care for that division(which, hey, like it or not, has an importance) and woke up with it destroyed.

I don't see how this improves stuff so much. Then we'd have to split industry as well.

 

[Easy1]

Yes.



Go and buy HOI3 with Semper Fi and be happy.

@Cyber dude: Look, I don't know how many of you know, but we can't know AT ALL what was the situation of armies back in 1936 because THAT WOULD MEAN A SHITSTORM OF RESEARCH.

That's 1. 2, quality of food depends from state to state. We don't know that as well.
3. Too much micromanagement because:
-You should take care of armies individually(which is annoying)
-You should take care of stockpiles, roads, etc.

Now, if you mean just splitting food from "supplies" thing, I find it kinda useless. Why? It happens to be low on supplies, hell, only if some people kinda...how should I say it. Cheat? and have 100000 supplies and then they just scream "I want food, clothes and ammo instead of supplies". Most of them never experienced a army without supplies. And if they did, they didn't care for that division(which, hey, like it or not, has an importance) and woke up with it destroyed.

I don't see how this improves stuff so much. Then we'd have to split industry as well.

This is a NEW game, and it will have NEW features. If you don't want new features go back playing Armageddon. And if you don't think agricultural recourses are important from a strategic point of view during wartime, you are indeed very wrong.

Of course there is information about these things. WW2 was 70 years ago and stuff were written down, you make it sound like 1500 years ago.

I think you have misunderstood the concept of micromanagement. Look at Victoria 2, look at the number of recourses present in that game. Now who calls that fact micromanagement? You have also misunderstood the concept of including a new recourse if you think that you in some way manually have to feed every division independently. By the way, food is the most important on the strategic level, not the tactical level

 

[Cybvep]

I agree with Easy1.

Grand strategy games should concentrate on stuff done on a big scale. In a wargame it's even more important to simulate logistics, because it's been one of the most crucial aspects of warfare since the antiquity.

I don't like heavy micromanagement, but adding a new resource which would make infrastructure, terrain and Battle of the Atlantic more important can really improve the game without making the micro overburdening.

 

[Ithron]

We indeed can and do have good knowledge of WW2 armies and that time period in general. What are you interested in, Czech army? Probably few thousands of books about that, of which couple of hundred are probably very good. The same with polish, belgian, finnish armies, etc. But German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese armies have been researched in the tens of thousands of books, if not more. So dont be so sceptical about science of history, it aint that incapable

As for the topic - it still would be nice to hear from DH devs about food topic. And rules is not the answer..

 

[quaazi]

Well, this is an interesting pickle the DH devs are in. Paradox has been setting weird, and by weird I mean 7-year-olds-understanding-of-political-correctness-weird, policies for ages, but now with a game that deals with WWI, one of those rules means not taking into account the most important aspect of an entire war. Are we forgetting how much of an impact the allied blockade of Germany had? Are we forgetting how far away from Berlin german troops were in the time of the surrender? Victory is making your enemy surrender, not crushing him, that's the important bit, but HoI does seem to put all emphasis on full occupation as the only viable method of winning a war.

So, DH devs, what I would like to see you guys do is nicely ASK paradox if perhaps it's time to remove severe handicaps from the developers of games and mods, and the community in large? You have a perfect argument for it, after all.

 

[CaptRobau]

I don't think food as a resource that impacts dissent and manpower(growth) breaks any of PI's rules. It's just as neutral an approach to the horrors of war as the impact of strategic bombing on National Unity.

Food is essential to a WWII grand strategy game like this. It would have to be a needed resource to produce supplies and it would put a cap on the amount of IC a country could have. Each IC would have to cost a number of food. Factory workers need to eat. Combined with a Scorched Earth button, food would be the second most important resource, after oil.

Food is definately a much more important resource in the war than coal/energy ever was.