Focus Tree Community Feedback Survey!

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Bruh.
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My point is, yes it still relatively affordable when you buy the DLCs over the course of a literal decade. But when a potential new player sees the steam page, and the total price for a complete EU4 is north of $450.... get the f out. At least that's what I think when I see that (not on PDS games because I understand the business model). Just in general.. ."oh, it's like that is it. hard pass."

At the same time, people are willing to spend $300+ on a concert that lasts a few hours, $50 for a two hour movie at the cinema, $150 on a university textbook.

If you want quality, you have to pay for it. I would argue that there is no other series of games that is as complex as HOI4, EUIV, Stellaris.

The real problem is that people think that games are something that's supposed to be cheap: when they aren't.

Programmers have the largest average salaries of all occupations, the issues one has to solve when building these games are quite complex. If you want them to make good stuff, you have to finance it.

There is no reason for CK2 complete to still be $310, 12 years after it came out, 6 years since the final DLC, and 4 years after the sequel was released.

Sorry, but a game is a product of labor just like anything else.

Saying "How come it still costs $10 12 years after it came out" is like saying "Why does this book cost $10, 50 years after it was printed" or "Why is this car sold for $10,000 10 years after it was produced."

It's not milk or eggs, it doesn't suddenly go down in value/rot because of the passage of time. It's worth the same amount as before, the only reason why it can be priced lower is because there is a newer game in the series that looks more advanced.


$400-500 for 500 hours of playing; is actually not that much. But people don't realize it.

Likely the whole subscription thing will take over sooner or later, just like it did with Netflix, and because game price will increase further 10 years down the line due to inflation.
 
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I can see the appeal of focus trees because they provide a series of little goals and rewards, but the the design of the game becomes exponentially more complicated the more focus trees are added or grown, with comparatively little return. The game now is an incredibly complicated web of flow charts that frequently conflict or contradict one another or lead to unclear, janky or bugged outcomes given the complexity of the system and the impossibility of being able to design for the outcomes for every possible combination.
 
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North America. In the EU wages are a little less, but still reasonable. And where are you from?

A good measure is coffee: almost anywhere in the world a standard 200-300ml latte or cappuccino costs $3-4 from the local coffee shop. A HOi4 DLC is then 10-15 cups of coffee.

Which is actually a good question: from which countries are most HOI4 buyers from? And is that what calls for two versions of the game: cut-down (no DLC) and enhanced (all DLC)?
North America. Minimum wage in my area is $7.25, but I started at $8.
 
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North America. Minimum wage in my area is $7.25, but I started at $8.
$8 an hour? Which state is that? Very hard to believe.

Latin illegal immigrants I knew that were working in construction in NJ made $24k a year, which is $11.50 an hour approximately.

I lived in NY, NJ, Southern Ontario. Minimum I ever made was $20 an hour in an office job in 2018, and I thought that was a ripoff.
 
$8 an hour? Which state is that? Very hard to believe.

Latin illegal immigrants I knew that were working in construction in NJ made $24k a year, which is $11.50 an hour approximately.

I lived in NY, NJ, Southern Ontario. Minimum I ever made was $20 an hour in an office job in 2018, and I thought that was a ripoff.
Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wisconsin all have minimum wages of $7.25. Many of them don't even have a minimum state wage, so if the Federal Minimum Wage ever goes away, starting wages will be even lower.

Arkansas, Missouri, and West Virginia have circumstances where the minimum wage is $7.25, as well.

Georgia, Oklahoma, and Wyoming have circumstances where the minimum is even less than $7.25. For Georgia and Wyoming, it can be as low as $5.15 an hour. In Oklahoma, it can be as low as $2 an hour.
 
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Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wisconsin all have minimum wages of $7.25. Many of them don't even have a minimum state wage, so if the Federal Minimum Wage ever goes away, starting wages will be even lower.

Arkansas, Missouri, and West Virginia have circumstances where the minimum wage is $7.25, as well.

Georgia, Oklahoma, and Wyoming have circumstances where the minimum is even less than $7.25. For Georgia and Wyoming, it can be as low as $5.15 an hour. In Oklahoma, it can be as low as $2 an hour.

I just had a hard time believing someone in the US would be willing to work for even $7 an hour. That's just... Third world. Even illegal immigrants would not agree to that as I bet their home countries pay a comparable wage (accounting for all the issues one has to go through to get to the US).
 
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There’s no actual spot in the survey to give you a full opinion of what specifically I want from FT - coordination and mechanical coherence. That is, if there is a expansion pack for Asia I don’t want the guy working on Siam and the one working on French Indochina to only have a passing knowledge of what the other is doing until it’s too late to make major changes, and if there’s some issue both countries have and solved in similar ways irl I don’t want two totally/wildly different implementations and interpretations in each unless theres a super compelling reason for it. If there’s a debate in the team as to how best to handle modelling some basic issue faced at the time they should deal with it as a team and not just go off to do whatever each member would prefer without regard for the coherence of the expansion as a whole. Not every country’s experience was the same and they shouldn’t be carbon copies of each other, but respectfully, the last expansion‘s Norway tree really felt to me like it was hurt by not enough of the above.
 
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This would be a much better game if Paradox had a "focus tree" for their development team. Then on day one, PDX should have chosen the path to "Focus" on 20-30 countries which were real players in WWII, and those countries that had the potential to significantly affect WWII's outcome.

PDX could then flesh out those countries properly, balancing old trees as they went along, and used developers time to fix all of the broken systems in the game. Also, I feel like 3-5 different minor country focus trees could have been made for the remainder of the minor countries with much less influence. People could still play any minor country they want, but with more realistic capabilities. A country does not have to be OP to be fun?

Instead PDX resources were used to make a ton of useless focus trees for insignificant countries that may have made Paradox a lot of money? IMHO the misdirected "focus" of the company broke what could have been the ultimate real time grand strategy WWII game of all time.

I feel that even if the game didn't go off the rails to make Denmark a legit contender for world domination, just as many people would have purchased a better functioning game. PDX could have made just as many DLCs, but focusing on fewer countries and putting more emphasis on the systems and the AI's use of them. Maybe they even could have released DLCs with fewer game breaking bugs.

I have NEVER, in thousands of hours of gameplay fought a complete campaign without HUGE immersion breaking bugs ruining my game experience. (for instance, the AI just abandoning an entire front) I think this game could have been much better and still be just as profitable had the proper "Focus" path been chosen.
 
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I play Germany exclusively and LOVE Hearts of Oak's their focus tree's. I don't find the vanilla's to be challenging enough.

While we're at it - Espionage needs more options for the Axis after war is declared - it is useless after war is declared.
 
I play Germany exclusively and LOVE Hearts of Oak's their focus tree's. I don't find the vanilla's to be challenging enough.

While we're at it - Espionage needs more options for the Axis after war is declared - it is useless after war is declared.
Yes Oak is fantastic, I really wish that the vanilla trees were more similar to those
 
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Yes Oak is fantastic, I really wish that the vanilla trees were more similar to those
I only wish they would make an effort to work mon the SP side of the mod.
 
There’s no actual spot in the survey to give you a full opinion of what specifically I want from FT - coordination and mechanical coherence. That is, if there is a expansion pack for Asia I don’t want the guy working on Siam and the one working on French Indochina to only have a passing knowledge of what the other is doing until it’s too late to make major changes, and if there’s some issue both countries have and solved in similar ways irl I don’t want two totally/wildly different implementations and interpretations in each unless theres a super compelling reason for it. If there’s a debate in the team as to how best to handle modelling some basic issue faced at the time they should deal with it as a team and not just go off to do whatever each member would prefer without regard for the coherence of the expansion as a whole. Not every country’s experience was the same and they shouldn’t be carbon copies of each other, but respectfully, the last expansion‘s Norway tree really felt to me like it was hurt by not enough of the above.
I fully agree with this, and you would think that working together on common solutions to common problems would yield much more "bang for the buck" for both PDX and the customers. However, reading the most recent DDs it looks like they might have taken some lessons learned from AAT into the development of Trial of Allegiance, so hopefully this will improve in upcoming expansions.
 
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Gosh I’m late, no chance to see what the questions exactly are. My opinion, that if want received feedback correctly reflect what the players really want, you need to do qualitative research instead of questionnaires, which only reflect the opinions just of those players who’re willing to express and share in your forum.

For me the price now is still ok, considering that PDS is still one of the best content creators for PDS games, and it would be better if higher revenues could help creating better (visibly) contents. It’s about trust so, you PDS guys should move first.

HOI4, especially on national focus, is now getting through a shared failing with other PDS games, that the old contents look too poor comparing with the latest contents, mainly flavored contents. EUIV provided a terrible but operable solution (DOM DLC I mean), but obviously the importance of Romania in HOI4 is higher that that of Oirat in EU4.

So personally I don’t recommend you guys to make players pay for a new that overwrite most flavored contents in DOD DLC, but to make players pay more for new DLCs, and provide free rework on old ones. if so, it seems that the first half has been done, and I’m looking forward to the last half XD.

About the specific contents of revising, there are 2 things that are important I believe:
1. Just quantitative things. More national focus, more decisions and events — more labour input, I mean.
2. Adaptability to new mechanics. I don’t know how many databases/checksums that you guys needs to be maintained at the same time, but bop really suits many old contents like Romania, Yugoslavia, Greece and PRC.

Basically it’s the affair of labour input, which is the concern of your HRs but I’m willing to pay, even make up for the price difference, so just do some rework on the old contents pls……
 
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Nobody asked the question yet why this survey is done.
For sure focus trees will not be removed in HOI IV, no matter what the result is. People already paid for it.

No, most likely they start started working on HOI V and did not yet align on a concept. Thus they ask the playerbase to help with the focus tree go/no go decision.
My best guess.
 
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Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wisconsin all have minimum wages of $7.25. Many of them don't even have a minimum state wage, so if the Federal Minimum Wage ever goes away, starting wages will be even lower.

Arkansas, Missouri, and West Virginia have circumstances where the minimum wage is $7.25, as well.

Georgia, Oklahoma, and Wyoming have circumstances where the minimum is even less than $7.25. For Georgia and Wyoming, it can be as low as $5.15 an hour. In Oklahoma, it can be as low as $2 an hour.
There are places where the payment are not even close to this, yet they buy this overpriced game.
In Hungary, the monthly minimum wage :187400 HUF ( after tax and all deductions )
Euro exchange rate: 387,830 HUF ( about 484 euro/month )
USD exchange rate: 360,238 HUF ( about 520 usd/month )
At 12:00 today, the forint was exchanged for dollars and euros at this rate.
But in many countries they don't even earn that much, and then what could they say about the price of the game?
Come on guys, the game is supercheap, i won't mind if PDX triple the purchase price for stuff.
It might matter to you, but it doesn't to a lot of people.
For me, the game is relatively affordable, but I wouldn't call it super cheap. On the other hand, if I look at the price-value ratio, the game is overpriced. I don't like to pay for things that are full of errors at the time of release and a significant part of these errors are not fixed even years later. So thanks, but no, if there is a bigger discount, I'll think about maybe buying the new dlc.

As for the survey, quite a few things were missing from it, so I didn't see much point in it. What did I miss? Which focus tree do I think is the best, worst, which focuses should be converted and why......etc. More could be listed...........
 
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Basically it’s the affair of labour input, which is the concern of your HRs but I’m willing to pay, even make up for the price difference, so just do some rework on the old contents pls……
I don't think paying to rework old content is a good idea. I consider the higher price for new content to be acceptable if the old content is reworked for free. But at the moment, I don't see many signs of the revision of the old content, so I'll wait and at most only buy the new content as part of a bigger discount, certainly not when it's released. Then when they start to actually rework the content of the old dlcs, then I will change my position.
 
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I don't think paying to rework old content is a good idea. I consider the higher price for new content to be acceptable if the old content is reworked for free. But at the moment, I don't see many signs of the revision of the old content, so I'll wait and at most only buy the new content as part of a bigger discount, certainly not when it's released. Then when they start to actually rework the content of the old dlcs, then I will change my position.
Wasn't some of Death or Dishoner DLC content reworked for free?
At least they never "doublesold" focus trees. I am quite sure they will not start with this, it would end up in a mess.

On the other hand e.g. the waking the Tiger content desperately needs an update. Not that much because of missing "powercreep" but because historical always going very wrong in far east.

At there is no direct possibility to squeeze money out of these focus trees, they have to be either updated for free or left abandoned.