Focus on interactions with people close to you

[Audio-Man]

Family is important, and so are close friends. And yet, they don't really feel that way in the game. Our aunt or uncle don't feel like family at all, and neither are our cousins. In Anglo-Saxon cultures, a mother's brother would often have a close tie to his nephew of niece, serving as a mentor and protector, especially if the father couldn't. In Slavic countries, a bond between cousins was often strong like that between brothers (anyone up for some bowling?). Ties between parents and children are understandably strong, and yet, in the game, none of that feels that way. You get standard ward events regardless of whether your ward is your child or not, and there aren't a lot of those in the first place. The only time anything even remotely memorable happened between my current character and his son is when he murdered someone out of nowhere and I had a diplomacy check to try and hide it. What just happened? What's the story behind it? Wouldn't it be more interesting if we had some insight into the lives of our family members and friends, and in turn, they would be interested in us? We could exchange letters with them, and maybe we could use letters for diplomacy and intrigue? Imagine sending a ruler a forged letter from his brother, starting a conflict in their family and using the opportunity to attack before they reconcile. Picture that when you get a rival, your friends stand behind you, getting negative opinion modifier for that person. Perhaps if your friend's friend becomes your rival, your friend will attempt to make peace between you two, with a chain of events possibly leading to you getting a friend, a best friend, a nemesis or simply ending the rivalry. So far, events between friends and family members specifically are relatively few and not very impactful, mostly resulting in a minor modifier. I think we need some more investment with relationships that could allow for some interesting roleplaying and storytelling.

 

[luxfelix]

Maybe this could be a function with pinning characters &/or diplomatic range?

 

[Juncoril]

Maybe this could be a function with pinning characters &/or diplomatic range?

Regarding pinning characters, maybe there could be a list of "Characters of interest" that the player has to fill out, similar to a council, with specific events and mechanics for them ? For example the preferred heir, the preferred lover, outside realm rival, etc

 

[Audio-Man]

Regarding pinning characters, maybe there could be a list of "Characters of interest" that the player has to fill out, similar to a council, with specific events and mechanics for them ? For example the preferred heir, the preferred lover, outside realm rival, etc

I like that, but this immediately made me think: what of the other children or lovers or friends? They still exist.

 

[luxfelix]

I like that, but this immediately made me think: what of the other children or lovers or friends? They still exist.

Oooh...

Sounds like an opportunity to showcase "neglected" characters whom, over periods of continual sidelining and neglect grow resentful of your character and, perhaps, become prime co-conspirator candidates...

 

[Audio-Man]

Oooh...

Sounds like an opportunity to showcase "neglected" characters whom, over periods of continual sidelining and neglect grow resentful of your character and, perhaps, become prime co-conspirator candidates...

That was my first idea, but then I thought this could have an unintended snowball effect, where the game becomes terribly frustrating because of the amount of people going after us. I think that our kids or friends trying to kill us because we don't write them is is a bit much. Maybe the positive opinion modifier that we receive from these relationships could start decaying if we don't take care of them?

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

It shouldn't all be about who's trying to murder you.

This should work in two ways:

- Close family creates a bond with you when you're a child - So, more events, and please, I hope they're not more "Oh no, uncle Gaudemar spilled beer all over my shirt!" kind of events. It's laughable that the only thing of note happening in my feasts is people spilling food over my new shirt, or people who fall over into the hall while they're smooching.

- Close family wants something from you - More events, but also a greater use of the hook system. Right now, hooks feel like blackmail all the time, but they need not be. They could be just a friendly exchange of favours.

So you'll befriend cousins or nephews, you'll be mentored by your uncle or you'll create a good or bad relationship with your father or mother, as a child.

Then, when you're an heir or a lord, you should be approached by relatives, landed or not, who want to be of use to you, or exploit your friendship. This way, you would know what your family is up to, and whether they hold your in high regard or not, wether they can be trusted or not.

 

[Audio-Man]

It shouldn't all be about who's trying to murder you.

This should work in two ways:

- Close family creates a bond with you when you're a child - So, more events, and please, I hope they're not more "Oh no, uncle Gaudemar spilled beer all over my shirt!" kind of events. It's laughable that the only thing of note happening in my feasts is people spilling food over my new shirt, or people who fall over into the hall while they're smooching.

- Close family wants something from you - More events, but also a greater use of the hook system. Right now, hooks feel like blackmail all the time, but they need not be. They could be just a friendly exchange of favours.

So you'll befriend cousins or nephews, you'll be mentored by your uncle or you'll create a good or bad relationship with your father or mother, as a child.

Then, when you're an heir or a lord, you should be approached by relatives, landed or not, who want to be of use to you, or exploit your friendship. This way, you would know what your family is up to, and whether they hold your in high regard or not, wether they can be trusted or not.

This sounds like a very reasonable proposal. I also feel like there should be an incentive for the player to have few good friends and maintain a relationships with them, rather then just use a meaningless "befriend" interaction on every vassal you can think of. Perhaps these should take a lot more time and include a lot more events? Afterall, it's kinda unrealistic to just build an army of friends in a couple of years, without the player really knowing or understanding anything about them. They don't feel very meaningful, they just feel like a way to get yourself extra stress when they die.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

This sounds like a very reasonable proposal. I also feel like there should be an incentive for the player to have few good friends and maintain a relationships with them, rather then just use a meaningless "befriend" interaction on every vassal you can think of. Perhaps these should take a lot more time and include a lot more events? Afterall, it's kinda unrealistic to just build an army of friends in a couple of years, without the player really knowing or understanding anything about them. They don't feel very meaningful, they just feel like a way to get yourself extra stress when they die.

Yes, more events are always good, but I feel Paradox are leanings towards mechanics instead of events. If you look at the events in the game, half of them seem to come from randos in the office just piling up ideas on what would make for a fun or mem-able event, rather than actual research on Medieval practices of the nobility.

"Oh no, Marshal Guy spilled food all over my shirt!"

The fact that there's an event wasted on the Iberia DLC based on the dumb legend of how James I named Orxata is a rather ridiculous example of what I mean. It's very superificial research.

 

[Audio-Man]

Yes, more events are always good, but I feel Paradox are leanings towards mechanics instead of events. If you look at the events in the game, half of them seem to come from randos in the office just piling up ideas on what would make for a fun or mem-able event, rather than actual research on Medieval practices of the nobility.

"Oh no, Marshal Guy spilled food all over my shirt!"

The fact that there's an event wasted on the Iberia DLC based on the dumb legend of how James I named Orxata is a rather ridiculous example of what I mean. It's very superificial research.

I would really like to see some of the grittier aspects of medieval period reflected in a more accurate manner. For example, the high infant mortality rate is not very well reflected in the game, and attitude towards it is actually something that should be reflected in the cultures: for example, in most Western European countries, a lot of people tried not to get attached to their babies too much, simply because of how many of them would die in infancy. In many cases, people didn't even name them until they were a year or two old. On another hand, in many Eastern European countries, people were a lot more attached to their children, and as a result, suffered a lot more when they died. It's even reflected in some pagan Slavic customs, focused on burial of such unfortunate children.
I want some investment in my events. Make me cry, Paradox. Make me cry before I create a dynasty of albino giant genius dwarves.

 

[luxfelix]

I would really like to see some of the grittier aspects of medieval period reflected in a more accurate manner. For example, the high infant mortality rate is not very well reflected in the game, and attitude towards it is actually something that should be reflected in the cultures: for example, in most Western European countries, a lot of people tried not to get attached to their babies too much, simply because of how many of them would die in infancy. In many cases, people didn't even name them until they were a year or two old. On another hand, in many Eastern European countries, people were a lot more attached to their children, and as a result, suffered a lot more when they died. It's even reflected in some pagan Slavic customs, focused on burial of such unfortunate children.
I want some investment in my events. Make me cry, Paradox. Make me cry before I create a dynasty of albino giant genius dwarves.

New court position: Wet Nurse?


Delay naming a child until they reach a certain age (for high infant mortality regions)?


Step kids have opinion malice towards step parent, unless they have completed family patriarch/matriarch tree completed?


Have surviving spouses more likely to take vows to become nuns/monks if depressed (lover/soulmate died) &/or they have a religious inclination (virtues or zealous)?


Was slavery portrayed in CKII (few things are grittier)? Slave raids?

 

[luxfelix]

That was my first idea, but then I thought this could have an unintended snowball effect, where the game becomes terribly frustrating because of the amount of people going after us. I think that our kids or friends trying to kill us because we don't write them is is a bit much. Maybe the positive opinion modifier that we receive from these relationships could start decaying if we don't take care of them?

Maybe there could be an inverse relationship between a character's rank/duties and the "free time" they have to maintain relationships (quality and quantity), including attending events?

It shouldn't all be about who's trying to murder you.

This should work in two ways:

- Close family creates a bond with you when you're a child - So, more events, and please, I hope they're not more "Oh no, uncle Gaudemar spilled beer all over my shirt!" kind of events. It's laughable that the only thing of note happening in my feasts is people spilling food over my new shirt, or people who fall over into the hall while they're smooching.

- Close family wants something from you - More events, but also a greater use of the hook system. Right now, hooks feel like blackmail all the time, but they need not be. They could be just a friendly exchange of favours.

So you'll befriend cousins or nephews, you'll be mentored by your uncle or you'll create a good or bad relationship with your father or mother, as a child.

Then, when you're an heir or a lord, you should be approached by relatives, landed or not, who want to be of use to you, or exploit your friendship. This way, you would know what your family is up to, and whether they hold your in high regard or not, wether they can be trusted or not.

Maybe expand guardianship mechanic so that "guardians" become a "squire" or "lady-in-waiting" (or other relevant retainer title) relationship?

If there's an event involving a character, their attending characters will also likely be involved, or at least witness (affecting them as well)?

This sounds like a very reasonable proposal. I also feel like there should be an incentive for the player to have few good friends and maintain a relationships with them, rather then just use a meaningless "befriend" interaction on every vassal you can think of. Perhaps these should take a lot more time and include a lot more events? Afterall, it's kinda unrealistic to just build an army of friends in a couple of years, without the player really knowing or understanding anything about them. They don't feel very meaningful, they just feel like a way to get yourself extra stress when they die.

Maybe the more friends one has, the less opinion/benefit each friend grants?

It's friend-inflation...

 

[Audio-Man]

New court position: Wet Nurse?


Delay naming a child until they reach a certain age (for high infant mortality regions)?


Step kids have opinion malice towards step parent, unless they have completed family patriarch/matriarch tree completed?


Have surviving spouses more likely to take vows to become nuns/monks if depressed (lover/soulmate died) &/or they have a religious inclination (virtues or zealous)?


Was slavery portrayed in CKII (few things are grittier)? Slave raids?

I don't recall slavery being present in CKII. I like the idea of wet nurses, since the game already has these just kinda appear when your wife dies in childbirth, so it should definitely be a court position. In general, I like a lot of these ideas. Also, what I meant was that pretty much EVERY region had very high infant mortality rate, it's just that people dealt with it in different ways, depending on their culture.

 

[Audio-Man]

Maybe there could be an inverse relationship between a character's rank/duties and the "free time" they have to maintain relationships (quality and quantity), including attending events?



Maybe expand guardianship mechanic so that "guardians" become a "squire" or "lady-in-waiting" (or other relevant retainer title) relationship?

If there's an event involving a character, their attending characters will also likely be involved, or at least witness (affecting them as well)?



Maybe the more friends one has, the less opinion/benefit each friend grants?

It's friend-inflation...

I don't know about friend inflation, I feel that making the process of becoming friends longer and more meaningful is a better way to go. However, the idea of it taking longer when your rank is higher, due to lack of spare time, is s good one, I think. And yes, guardians should definitely play a bigger role.