Fleet Power ... what is the actual definition?

[IrishGirl]

Title. What does it actually mean when used in the game on a tool tip? Particularly in comparison to an aggressive alien empire. Is it:

Option 1: The total potential power that an empire can generate if it built it's fleet (ships, starbases) to the total force limit or

Option 2: The total "fleet in being". What the empire has now, built and ready to go?

Does it include starbase defenses? What actually goes into this calculation?

Edit: If it helps, I'm referring of when the tooltip says: "Their fleet power is superior to yours."

Thanks!

 

[Longherin]

I think it is fleet in being. Trash some of their ships and it drops.

 

[IrishGirl]

Thank you! You saved me!

 

[Ashantai]

It is absolutely what you have built.

 

[RoverStorm]

It is the "Fleet Power" of your...well fleets in being as you put it, added together. Your ships have a Fleet Power stat, which is roughly how powerful it is. Fleet Power when compared to another empire adds all of your "Mobile" Fleets' power and compares it to the other empire's "Mobile" Fleets' power.

 

[pttaylor]

It's worth noting that it does factor in bonuses from tech and admirals, but doesn't factor in that strike craft are useless or that point defence might not do anything. The later is very relevant, because the AI builds *all* its corvettes and destroyers as point defence ships, so early game their corvette fleets look about 50% stronger than they actually are if you aren't using missiles (on that note, don't use missiles early game, PD is quite effective).

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

Does it include starbase defenses?

No it doesn't, and that i think screws the AI because if it's Superior or more to you it may decide to declare war on you, only to see that you have a ginormous Space Station on the border that is significantly stronger than its fleet. So the AI declares war on you and then promptly doesn't even try to attack.

This usually happens in early game when starbases can be quite strong compared to fleets. In late game starbases becomes way less relevant compared to the big fleets that start flying around.

 

[Bouchart]

Fleet power doesn't seem to take into account the repeatable techs that increase attack speed, armor, etc.

 

[RoverStorm]

Fleet power doesn't seem to take into account the repeatable techs that increase attack speed, armor, etc.

If this is true then that is 100% a bug, as modifiers in previous versions of the game absolutely increased fleet power.

 

[IrishGirl]

First, thanks to everyone who helped me. I did try to find a clear definition before asking here, but there was nothing that clarified it as well as this group. Again, thanks!

No it doesn't, and that i think screws the AI because if it's Superior or more to you it may decide to declare war on you, only to see that you have a ginormous Space Station on the border that is significantly stronger than its fleet. So the AI declares war on you and then promptly doesn't even try to attack.

This usually happens in early game when starbases can be quite strong compared to fleets. In late game starbases becomes way less relevant compared to the big fleets that start flying around.

I've been wondering about this. One of my strategies has been to build two defense stations (missiles and kinetic early game, because they're cheap) on one of the first systems into my empire. So find a chokepoint to protect and build these two stations. If they get destroyed, no big deal because they're not expensive.

The AI, with 2k ships, would move in, get pulled in (FTL inhibitors) and then when they were engage but before my starport fell, I'd move in a fleet of similar size and just destroy them.

But since Le Guin (and Megacorp) dropped, in every war in which I've been involved, the AI just hides in one of its primary systems while I tear down its outer defense systems. Maybe I'm just experiencing this in my games, but it seems as if the AI is not as aggressive and doesn't directly attack any longer.

Maybe I just need to get further in my game.

 

[IrishGirl]

The later is very relevant, because the AI builds *all* its corvettes and destroyers as point defence ships, so early game their corvette fleets look about 50% stronger than they actually are if you aren't using missiles (on that note, don't use missiles early game, PD is quite effective).

That's interesting. The only time I use missles early game is on my defense stations. In fact, I rarely research them beyond the second level in any game (so you get the first level at start and I research the next level and stop). Then I put medium missles on my defense stations.

Admittedly, I'm not the best player, but they do seem to be effective on a defense station, particularly if supported by my lasar spaceships. And I build simple fleets early game: laser and kinetic destoryer gunboats with mostly laser corvettes. My rationale is that after a close battle, my laser ships are usually all that's left.

Is this a poor way of doing it? Also, are missles worth researching mid- to late game? Thanks!

 

[The-False-Being26]

[/QUOTE]I've been wondering about this. One of my strategies has been to build two defense stations (missiles and kinetic early game, because they're cheap) on one of the first systems into my empire. So find a chokepoint to protect and build these two stations. If they get destroyed, no big deal because they're not expensive.

The AI, with 2k ships, would move in, get pulled in (FTL inhibitors) and then when they were engage but before my starport fell, I'd move in a fleet of similar size and just destroy them.

But since Le Guin (and Megacorp) dropped, in every war in which I've been involved, the AI just hides in one of its primary systems while I tear down its outer defense systems. Maybe I'm just experiencing this in my games, but it seems as if the AI is not as aggressive and doesn't directly attack any longer.

Maybe I just need to get further in my game.[/QUOTE]

About the AI on this update, it’s worth noting that the AI is completely broken. It barely understands how to uses fleets and doesn’t understand any of the new economic systems. It can’t even upgrade buildings. The AI won’t get better or more aggressive the further you get into a game only more and more pathetic. If you want any challenge at all from the AI you will need a AI mod like Glavius Ultimate AI.

 

[Soranya]

No it doesn't, and that i think screws the AI because if it's Superior or more to you it may decide to declare war on you, only to see that you have a ginormous Space Station on the border that is significantly stronger than its fleet. So the AI declares war on you and then promptly doesn't even try to attack.

This usually happens in early game when starbases can be quite strong compared to fleets. In late game starbases becomes way less relevant compared to the big fleets that start flying around.

Well how about the AI does make a Warplan (and a Plan B and a Plan OMFG LET ME OUT) before declaring war - would be a nice change.

 

[Less2]

Fleet power doesn't seem to take into account the repeatable techs that increase attack speed, armor, etc.

It does AFAIK, but it doesn't always recalculate immediately. If you split and recreate the fleet you should see it recalculated immediately.

As for what isn't taken into account:

- Chance to hit bonuses. Obviously the base chance to hit of weapon matters (as it determines DPS along with damage and fire rate), but bonuses from Auxillary Fire Control and similar don't help. In fact they reduce the fleet power slightly due to lower excess energy.
- Tracking bonuses, and I believe tracking in general. Same issue as chance to hit with the complication that the game doesn't know if you are fighting a fleet of corvettes or titans, so it ignores them.
- Any kind of special weapon/defense/damage type modifiers.
- (not sure) Range.

The overall equation is something like Sqrt(Effective HP * DPS). Effective HP itself being a combination of all hull/armor/shields * some fudge factor linked to Evasion's ability to avoid shots. I think hull/armor/shields are just added together, fleet power does change very slightly with 100 shields vs. 100 armor but it's basically within rounding error margins.

 

[Kami-sama]

Fleet Power is calculated by ship stats, the ones you see in the ship designer or the fleet menu. It takes into account HP, Armor, Shields, Sublight Speed, Evasion, Average Damage and Rank for each individual ship.

Average Damage is calculated for each weapon as Damage (averaged) divided by Cooldown and then multiplied by Accuracy. It doesn't take into account Tracking, Range or effectiveness against various defense components. Take for example Tier I and Tier III point-defenses (picked them because they're quick to calculate):

As for how the AI reacts based on Fleet Power, it will only go on the offensive during a war when the sum of all their fleets' Fleet Power is 1.2 times greater than that of the opponent's. It will also refuse to reinforce attacked systems if the sum of all their fleets' Fleet Power is lower than that of the opponent, except when they're down to one system and hunker down there.

 

[Soranya]

As for how the AI reacts based on Fleet Power, it will only go on the offensive during a war when the sum of all their fleets' Fleet Power is 1.2 times greater than that of the opponent's. It will also refuse to reinforce attacked systems if the sum of all their fleets' Fleet Power is lower than that of the opponent, except when they're down to one system and hunker down there.

This is one explanation why winning against an AI is so extremly easy - it simply will not defend itself if your are slightly more powerfull then they are...

 

[Longherin]

Given by what I saw in the current game, the AI isn't actually bad at building fleets: my AI neighbor isn't doing too bad on making use of its fleet cap.
It *is*, however, really bad at reassessing its current situation. In the last war, it had three fleets. Of those three fleets, two of them were strong but they were...very dedicated, to their job of patrolling their space against piracy. At that point in the game the AI had a definite ship advantage over me.
(Mid-late game on a middle-sized galaxy, so ai fleet power was about 15k each)

With that in mind, I think the AI is not bad at making long term decisions, but is terrible at making short term ones. I think it has no issue ramping for ship production if there's a neighbor that it wants to shank, but...
...if I had to guess, I'd say that the AI doesn't know how to retool its economy to account for changes in its neighbors and alliances, but logically it tries to, and as a result it keeps running into bottlenecks where the decision it wants to make has no resource behind it to make it happen.

...aka the AI can't manage its economy.