Fleet composition question

[DreadLindwyrm]

OK, so I've recently come back to the game and I'm finding that I'm losing any fight that's even close to parity.

I've got 7.5k strength, my (AI) opponent has 6k? I'll lose almost every time, and lose big.

So, since I'm currently using auto-build (because I don't really get the ship building thing), what sort of mix of ships should I be looking at as a general ratio?


Also, does it really matter what my starting weapons are, since it seems that the ship builder will just change tracks on a whim anyway?

 

[Alblaka]

Starting weapons do not matter as much as to what you focus your research on. Of course the auto-build will use whatever most advanced weapons it can grab.

And if that most-advanced weapon is a missile, your fleet is effectively floating garbage, since missiles are thoroughly broken n 1.4 (and get a bandaid buff in 1.5 and are supposed to be reworked somewhen later).

Past that, with the lack of information (i.e. how your auto-build looks) provided, I can only state that it's completely possible for a badly designed 7.5k fleet to lose against a well-designed 6k fleet. And that the auto-designer has no idea on how to make proper builds and pretty much designs randomly.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

So, should I essentially ignore any missile based weapons at the moment?

Since I'm facing the AI, wouldn't it be expected that the AI would also have sucky/random (automatic) builds, and so it should mostly cancel out?

 

[henzington]

Missles are being buffed in 1.5 but no idea if it is enough to make them worth using.

 

[Slynx]

shipbuilding is a fun thing. really suggest to try experimenting with it, cuz results are almost always better then autobuild.

as for your question(if we're using auto design only): first focus on corvettes only. skip destroyers, cuz autobuild usually tend to equip them with point defense(but if you have no PD researched - you may get some too). get yourself a good admiral, fleet academy and cruisers.

i usually build either 1cruiser-2desrt-5corvettes or (if i'm in a hurry) "10-20-40"

Missles are being buffed in 1.5 but no idea if it is enough to make them worth using.

# Components
* Missile cooldown reduced from 2.0-3.0 to 0.2-2.5
* Missile armor penetration changed to 0/15/30%
* Missile speed increased from 5 to 6
* Missiles now deal +10% damage vs. shields
* Missile HP have been adjusted slightly
* Weapon windup does not get cancelled when losing target during windup

not so much

So, should I essentially ignore any missile based weapons at the moment?

indeed

 

[Alblaka]

Since I'm facing the AI, wouldn't it be expected that the AI would also have sucky/random (automatic) builds, and so it should mostly cancel out?

Yes, on a large number of truly random empires.
But
a. the 'random build' is dependant on what you research. If you research bad, all your random builds will be generally bad too. (i.e.)
b. you were talking about a single 7.5k vs 6k encounter, which means it's entirely plausible to assume that for this instance the 6k fleet was randomly build good.

There's another issue with the auto-design, regarding PD and Torpedos.
It will always put PD on destroyers and Torpedos on Corvettes.
This even applies if you are facing corvettes vs corvettes (in which case torpedos are pointless) or PD Destryoers vs anything_that_doesnt_use_missiles .

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Yes, on a large number of truly random empires.
But
a. the 'random build' is dependant on what you research. If you research bad, all your random builds will be generally bad too. (i.e.)
b. you were talking about a single 7.5k vs 6k encounter, which means it's entirely plausible to assume that for this instance the 6k fleet was randomly build good.

There's another issue with the auto-design, regarding PD and Torpedos.
It will always put PD on destroyers and Torpedos on Corvettes.
This even applies if you are facing corvettes vs corvettes (in which case torpedos are pointless) or PD Destryoers vs anything_that_doesnt_use_missiles .

It's not a one off. It's been a repeated problem over the 5 or so games I've tried since coming back.
Ergo, I'm wondering if it's a composition error rather than a build error.

*Shrug* I'll just need to work with it - and then relearn with Banks...

shipbuilding is a fun thing. really suggest to try experimenting with it, cuz results are almost always better then autobuild.

as for your question(if we're using auto design only): first focus on corvettes only. skip destroyers, cuz autobuild usually tend to equip them with point defense(but if you have no PD researched - you may get some too). get yourself a good admiral, fleet academy and cruisers.

i usually build either 1cruiser-2desrt-5corvettes or (if i'm in a hurry) "10-20-40"

That's not too far from the ratio I was on. I think I was trying about 1:3:6, but I'm not sure.

 

[Slynx]

i've played a game about month ago where i was building only corvettes, and in tech i researched only Kinetic (mass driver-coil-... and autocannon-..).
i used 2 design - 3small gauss cannon + 2 or 3 small shield & 3 autocannon (i really wished there were plasma too, but self restrictions can't be denied)
managed to play til the mid game with it (300-400fleet). then, unfortunately had to switch to bigger ships