Fleet Combat for Nonagressive Research Empires Sucks badly at this time

[Anubite51]

So I was playing a machine race in a tall science and unity gathering style and not going for a big fleet early on. Loe and behold my huge neighbor is a massive spiritualist and hates my guts and decides to delcare war. That's no problem I assumed I was safe because there was one chokepoint in the hyperlane for his fleets to go through. No Problem right? WRONG!!!!! Somehow their fleets just sailed right around my huge defensive positions I had spent the majority of my alloys on!! Now my entire empire is being ransacked and there is not shit I can do about it. Ya know why? Because enemy fleets don't have to engage the defensive structures in systems when the enter and I think they should have to or what's the fucking point of them!!! This to me is a hugely game breaking issue currently in the game as I can't play how I want to anymore I simply have to have an equal sized fleet when another huge empire is discovered next to me!! Can somebody please explain to me why this is a feature in the game and how in the name of God am I supposed to keep up with more massive civilizations!!!??

Note: Attached is a screenshot of the Mofos just flying past my 2.5k defenses I built to keep me safe and this was taken after everything inside my borders is now theirs. Fleets should have to take borders stations to gain access to the inside of a player's space!!

 

[Bologna336]

Looks like you didn't research Ftl inhibitor tech in physics. It's a fairly early tech that without it the AI can and will just fly around it just like you would. Is a simple and sometimes fatal early game mistake to miss

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Yeah, you should have researched FTL inhibitors.

 

[Anubite51]

Wait that's what that tech does? Why isn't that something that is just in the game from the start? I have to use a slot to keep people from just flying past?

 

[Bologna336]

Doesn't take a slot. Just allows spacestations and forts on planets to Ftl inhibit

 

[Bologna336]

Made the same mistake assuming I wouldn't need it, and a fairly easy war turned into a 20 year long mess. Made sure I pick Ftl inhibitor as soon as I see it

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Wait that's what that tech does? Why isn't that something that is just in the game from the start? I have to use a slot to keep people from just flying past?

It doesn't require a slot. You research the tech and any starbase upgraded above an outpost (as well as any planet with an intact Fortress) blocks FTL egress from the system by enemies.

 

[KingAlamar]

If it matters I don't like it much either. I pretty much always pick up FTL inhibitors relatively early on just so I don't have to watch enemy fleets bypass my carefully constructed choke points.

Note: Even though I play tall & peaceful I also try to build to my [limited] military cap anyway ... just in case.

 

[Badesumofu]

Other than the obvious which has already been stated, I'd also point out that fleet combat sucks for people who don't make an effort to build a decent fleet. Static defences can't keep up for that long and are expensive anyway. Better to spend those alloys on a fleet, IMO.

If you stay too 'tall' (sounds more like you're playing small than tall really) you are not going to keep up on research compared to a wide empire that emphasises research. The penalty to research from empire size is easy to (much) more than overcome by having a good number of tech-worlds.

You can play a peaceful or mostly peaceful builder style to great effect but you'll want to peacefully claim as much territory and crucially as many planets as you can. And you'd still want a solid fleet - maintain a big fleet as a deterrent and you won't find yourself at war in the first place.

 

[The Boz]

Looks like you didn't research Ftl inhibitor tech in physics. It's a fairly early tech that without it the AI can and will just fly around it just like you would. Is a simple and sometimes fatal early game mistake to miss

"""mistake"""
You know, this is really getting annoying.
You realize that the tech cards you get are random, right?
There were games where I was randomly mandated to suck, because I couldn't for the life of me draw FTL inhibitor or naval capacity techs until 2280 or something.

 

[Epidemais]

"""mistake"""
You know, this is really getting annoying.
You realize that the tech cards you get are random, right?
There were games where I was randomly mandated to suck, because I couldn't for the life of me draw FTL inhibitor or naval capacity techs until 2280 or something.

you can actually influence the chance for getting certain techs. For example: Use a scientist that has the same trait as the tech you want to research. I never had any problems getting FTL-Inhibitors before my first war.

 

[Askorti]

"""mistake"""
You know, this is really getting annoying.
You realize that the tech cards you get are random, right?
There were games where I was randomly mandated to suck, because I couldn't for the life of me draw FTL inhibitor or naval capacity techs until 2280 or something.

The FTL inhibitor is both a fairly early tech and has a high weight, which makes it a pretty frequent draw.

 

[The Boz]

The FTL inhibitor is both a fairly early tech and has a high weight, which makes it a pretty frequent draw.

You would think that, but not drawing it for decades still does happen.

 

[FlavourBeans]

For what it's worth, you can manage a poor-man's FTL inhibitor by keeping a minimal fleet near your defenses. Whenever the enemy comes in to skirt around, use that fleet to engage them in battle, drawing them in close enough for your defenses to join in.

 

[The Boz]

you can actually influence the chance for getting certain techs. For example: Use a scientist that has the same trait as the tech you want to research. I never had any problems getting FTL-Inhibitors before my first war.

Weight of 75 is not "high" at all, especially in the tier 1 & 2 space that is pretty rich in tech options. 1.25x modifier for particle specialist or supremacy tradition aren't that huge of a bump. Particles is a LOT of techs.

 

[Tacticus101]

Im fairly sure the wiki tech tree is out of date. Here is the tech from the code:



tech_ftl_inhibitor = {
area = physics
cost = @tier2cost1
tier = 2
category = { particles }
prerequisites = { "tech_hyper_drive_1" }
weight = @tier2weight1

feature_flags = {
planetary_ftl_inhibitor
}

weight_modifier = {
factor = 4 #FTL inhibitor is very important
modifier = {
factor = 1.25
has_tradition = tr_supremacy_adopt
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.25
research_leader = {
area = physics
has_trait = "leader_trait_expertise_particles"
}
}
}

ai_weight = {
factor = 4 #FTL inhibitor is really good
modifier = {
factor = 1.25
research_leader = {
area = physics
has_trait = "leader_trait_expertise_particles"
}
}
}
}


It has very high weight and is a tier 2 tech, so has higher weight anyway.
Should be very easy to get as an option.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

More people not knowing the game and going straight to "GAME IS BROKEN REFUND NOW".

Why, WHY people never assume there could be something THEY missed or did wrong?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

More people not knowing the game and going straight to "GAME IS BROKEN REFUND NOW".

Why, WHY people never assume there could be something THEY missed or did wrong?

Its pretty sad, yeah...

Wait that's what that tech does? Why isn't that something that is just in the game from the start? I have to use a slot to keep people from just flying past?

Like, they didn't even pay attention to what the game was telling them? "That's what that tech does"? Uh, yeah, it tells you as much if you mouse over it.

 

[monkeypunch87]

More people not knowing the game and going straight to "GAME IS BROKEN REFUND NOW".

Why, WHY people never assume there could be something THEY missed or did wrong?

Well, as a little excuse: This kind of chokepoint defense is one of the main reasons for the hyperlane-only decision with Update 2.0. I played probably a couple hundreds hours since then and I first learned about the fact that I have to research "FTL inhibitors" for my chokepoints in this thread right now.

Actually, I was assuming a fortress system like in EU4 since then and I wasn't paying attention before this thread.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

More people not knowing the game and going straight to "GAME IS BROKEN REFUND NOW".

Why, WHY people never assume there could be something THEY missed or did wrong?

Let me reaffirm your faith in humanity: You are the victim of poster self-selection here, the forum does not reflect the general state of affairs.

People who assume they missed something or did something wrong either ask nicely for help (it has been known to happen) or more commonly search for, and find, answers and solutions on their own to known problems (not necessarily optimal solutions, but whatever works for them), and thus have no reason to post in the first place.