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Namm

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This have been discussed in various other threads, but I will summarize a few of my opinions, observations, suggestions here. You're welcome to do so too since my post alone will in no way be all-encompassing.

The fire phase must become not only activated but important from the beginning of the game. As it is right now, it's not even present at the start and doesn't become noticeable until the mid or (if you're playing an ordinary non-European country) late part of the game. Rename it to "range phase" if "fire" doesn't feel accurate enough. Naturally, with the use of gunpowder, the fire/range base multiplier for infantry increases much more rapidly than for cavarly, but the fire/range phase should be important for cavalry too. 1000 horsemen with bows aren't very different from 1000 non-mounted archers. If anything, horsemen should get increased defensive fire/range values thanks to their mobility.

There are examples of this during Babur's invasion of India (and with that, the creation of the Mughal Empire, one of the most important events during the EU3 time period) when horse archers played a crucial role (probably more so than the cannons and muskets he brought with him). In EU3 1.2.1, will we ever see an vastly outnumbered Timurid cavalry dominated army decimating Indian foes during the fire phase? No. Another example is a player controlled Ottoman Empire. They are better off expanding east- and northwards on the plains. The provinces are Sunni and Mongolian-Turkic and the military opposition is far weaker than in Eastern Europe (just not right). A similar example is AI China. It always sends its huge infantry armies west out on the plains, and instead of getting severely "pincushioned" by horse archer armies, is victorious and gets enormous. (As we know, China was actually itself repeatedly invaded - constantly plauged by nomadic incursions.)

Land tech needs to be adjusted so that (from what I can tell) non-European countries (that aren't basing their entire economy on trade) can actually develop historically. Japan typically never gets muskets and I myself playing as Mysore in control of 90 percent of India just invented longbows (had been in use since BC) in the 1660's (!). I can't see how West African nations will ever get hold of muskets, when in reality huge numbers of muskets were imported from Europe (that's one of the reasons to why European conquest of that region didn't occur until the invention and mass manufacturing of repeating rifles and machine guns in the late 19th century).

Tech groups are too undetailed and limits countries such as Ethiopia and Songhai, renowned for their cavarly, to recruit cavarly and seafaring East Africans to build ships (sure, they are too poor to build a big enough navy to defend themselves from anything but pirates, but still - they knew how to construct and navigate ships). Mad King James suggested having several African tech groups to solve this problem, and why not?
 

dharper

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Namm said:
The fire phase must become not only activated but important from the beginning of the game.
You might want to try Magna Mundi - the mod has changed tech stats so the fire phase becomes important from day 1. It still takes higher tech levels before it becomes anything close to as deadly as the shock phase, but it's a pleasant surprise to see longbowmen actually useful for something. :D

Another example is a player controlled Ottoman Empire. They are better off expanding east- and northwards on the plains. The provinces are Sunni and Mongolian-Turkic and the military opposition is far weaker than in Eastern Europe (just not right).
This has been discussed a lot by modders. Some mods have had success in getting the AI Ottomans to absorb their neighbours in Anatolia, but they seem to balk at attacking Persia or the Mamluks in the same way that France balks at going to war with Spain. Big powers just won't fight other big powers.

Land tech needs to be adjusted so that (from what I can tell) non-European countries (that aren't basing their entire economy on trade) can actually develop historically. Japan typically never gets muskets
If you try Sakura's Sengoku mod (or any of the mods that incorporate it, like Magna Mundi and the Combomod) you'll see events for them that will help their land tech and the option to become Westernized.

and I myself playing as Mysore in control of 90 percent of India just invented longbows (had been in use since BC) in the 1660's (!).
Okay, that's just pathetic. :( Maybe it is time for change.

One of the ideas I put forward a while ago was adding a number of "0-level" techs that non-Latin countries could start at, but increasing the tech level of non-Latin countries. This would let other countries research but still give them many levels to go before they caught up with Europeans in 1453.

The problem with that idea is that the game calculates what tech level countries start at by figuring out how many tech points they would have earned by that date and comparing it to the tech costs of technology levels. Latin countries all start very, very close to the tech level that has the same date as the starting year - so if you gave Japan a 1.0 tech speed, they'd start with the same level as Europeans. However, it's possible to give them a higher tech speed, at least. Many people have suggested that there ought to be one Techgroup for China and one for the rest of Asia. China needs a slow techgroup because it's so rich that even at 0.4 speed it seems to catch up with Europe by the end of the game. Japan and the rest of Asia have the same techgroup but aren't nearly as rich, so they get unfairly penalized.

Tech groups are too undetailed and limits countries such as Ethiopia and Songhai, renowned for their cavarly, to recruit cavarly and seafaring East Africans to build ships (sure, they are too poor to build a big enough navy to defend themselves from anything but pirates, but still - they knew how to construct and navigate ships). Mad King James suggested having several African tech groups to solve this problem, and why not?
I agree completely. :D You make many salient points in this post. Hopefully we can find solutions to them.
 

Darkrenown

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dharper said:
The problem with that idea is that the game calculates what tech level countries start at by figuring out how many tech points they would have earned by that date and comparing it to the tech costs of technology levels. Latin countries all start very, very close to the tech level that has the same date as the starting year - so if you gave Japan a 1.0 tech speed, they'd start with the same level as Europeans.

Do you know if it includes all the factors when it calculates starting tech or only looks at the tech group? If the former you could bump selected nations into better (or worse) tech groups and make special governments with +/- tech modifiers and an event to correct the government when you start. E.g. put a country in the latin tech group and give a 50% tech penalty government so it starts about half as advanced as other latin nations but can advance at the same speed.
 

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Darkrenown said:
Do you know if it includes all the factors when it calculates starting tech or only looks at the tech group?
I did some experiments on this a few weeks ago, and was surprised to find that yes, it's not only techgroup - when I started at later dates, Latin countries could be as much as +/-2 techs from the average. I don't know all the factors, but it definitely includes some (e.g. innovativeness, centralization, possibly national ideas) and may even include income.

If the former you could bump selected nations into better (or worse) tech groups and make special governments with +/- tech modifiers and an event to correct the government when you start. E.g. put a country in the latin tech group and give a 50% tech penalty government so it starts about half as advanced as other latin nations but can advance at the same speed.
Certainly worth a try!
 

Shanok

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dharper said:
You might want to try Magna Mundi - the mod has changed tech stats

I think this sums up the answer nicely. A large portion of your original post is spent talking about countries historically, which is exactly what EUIII is not about. Your references to Timurid being stronger, China being smaller, and African nations being renowned for superior cavalry are remarks you actually have no leg to stand on with the vanilla game. Paradox wasn't striving for historicity on this one.
 

Namm

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Let me begin with saying that any dev willing to correct these flaws are welcome to do so, Paradox dev or mod dev. Doesn't matter for me. I don't have the time or knowledge to do it myself and I lack my own test team to get it balanced.

dharper said:
You might want to try Magna Mundi - the mod has changed tech stats so the fire phase becomes important from day 1.
I am using Magna Mundi. MM incorporates the RealWar mod that changes the stats a little tiny bit. I've even made my own alterations (increased fire values for early infantry and especially cavalry, moved some units to lower tech levels) and reinstalled EU3 to get the pre-1.2 units back (you know, with the latest patch release, Paradox "solved" the problem with no early fire phase by simply removing the fire values for various units - which makes RW pretty much redundant if you're using the 1.2 units).

dharper said:
If you try Sakura's Sengoku mod (or any of the mods that incorporate it, like Magna Mundi and the Combomod) you'll see events for them that will help their land tech and the option to become Westernized.
In my most recent game it's now late 17th century and the Japanese states are still at land tech level 3.

Shanok said:
A large portion of your original post is spent talking about countries historically, which is exactly what EUIII is not about. [...] Paradox wasn't striving for historicity on this one.
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Not historicity you say, and clearly not game balance either (monster Ming and an eternal steppe Timurid Empire dividing Asia between them). So, why?
 
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Darkrenown

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Shanok said:
Paradox wasn't striving for historicity on this one.

Actually, they have put a great deal of effort into making the game start, at whatever date you choose, historically accurate and them letting the game run as it will from there.