Flashpoint Campaign Nerf or am I way better then when I started?

[Harcagnel]

So as it says in the title, I started playing BattleTech about a month ago. I beat the game last week, then I a bought the season pass and started a new campaign because I thought it would be fun to try to one up myself know that I know my favorite mechs and how to build them out. Etc.

When replaying the first missions (up to the point you can pick, though it only had 2 options)… I noticed all the mechs were highly damaged and it was super easy to walk though. To the point of being boarding and tedious because you don't get any salvage or money as you don't have access to the meta game yet, and their was ZERO Challenge.

So my question is did they over nerf it to the point of making it painfully easy stripping the fun.... or was I simply so unaware of evasion, heat, and melee design that the game was much harder and now that I know, the same missions are easy. It seems like it was nerfed but maybe there is that much of a learning curve. I just remember the missions until you gain control being pretty touch, then you get control and things get easier but your balancing a budget to the wire... which honestly also seems easier but that might be due to me rebuilding my mechs, killing faster with less damage, and using salvage and selling of crap mechs to extend time. (Also I got a lucky head shot on a commando in the last mission on rails, so I upgrade the spider immediately.

A lot to unpackage, here. I am just curious if anyone knows if they nerfed the early game to prevent scaring off new players, or if even the whole game was nerfed and I should restart on a harder mode. I just went default both times I believe. Thanks for any feed back.

 

[HBS_HighCommand]

The 'Mechs have always started out "poorly maintained."

 

[Sigil]

So as it says in the title, I started playing BattleTech about a month ago. I beat the game last week, then I a bought the season pass and started a new campaign because I thought it would be fun to try to one up myself know that I know my favorite mechs and how to build them out. Etc.

When replaying the first missions (up to the point you can pick, though it only had 2 options)… I noticed all the mechs were highly damaged and it was super easy to walk though. To the point of being boarding and tedious because you don't get any salvage or money as you don't have access to the meta game yet, and their was ZERO Challenge.

So my question is did they over nerf it to the point of making it painfully easy stripping the fun.... or was I simply so unaware of evasion, heat, and melee design that the game was much harder and now that I know, the same missions are easy. It seems like it was nerfed but maybe there is that much of a learning curve. I just remember the missions until you gain control being pretty touch, then you get control and things get easier but your balancing a budget to the wire... which honestly also seems easier but that might be due to me rebuilding my mechs, killing faster with less damage, and using salvage and selling of crap mechs to extend time. (Also I got a lucky head shot on a commando in the last mission on rails, so I upgrade the spider immediately.

A lot to unpackage, here. I am just curious if anyone knows if they nerfed the early game to prevent scaring off new players, or if even the whole game was nerfed and I should restart on a harder mode. I just went default both times I believe. Thanks for any feed back.

Explore the difficulty settings if you find the game too easy. Frankly, the default setting make the game quite easy for an experienced player. Turn everything to the most difficult, and you'll have a completely different experience. Simply changing the salvage to "Pieces of Eight" makes the game significantly different.

 

[Harcagnel]

The 'Mechs have always started out "poorly maintained."

Good to know. So it's just a better understanding of game mechanics making everything so much easier. It was an extremely dramatic difference from my first play through, so I doubted it was me that had improved and its not unusual for developers to nerf early game to prevent from scaring away new players. I hate that so I am glad that's not the case.

Explore the difficulty settings if you find the game too easy. Frankly, the default setting make the game quite easy for an experienced player. Turn everything to the most difficult, and you'll have a completely different experience. Simply changing the salvage to "Pieces of Eight" makes the game significantly different.

I will give it tray a couple more missions past the Argo and see if it gets any harder. If not, I will try "Pieces of Eight" and look to see if there is anything else I want to add. I am considering making this a self imposed "Iron Man" run in the mean time. Its too late to change that in the settings but I don't mind having the ability to back up to the start of a mission when I get a "glitch click" that would destroy me (Though a confirmation before move, or a back one move, option of play would be better) . Not sure if its my PC, my mouse, me, or the game but no matter how careful I have been I can't seem to prevent the occasional one click deciding my move and facing. I bound "face target" to the "C" key and make it a standard practice to pick a decent target before trying to move, which doesn't prevent this but makes far more rare or at least ensures I can shoot one target and I am not pointing my back at the enemy.

For a second/third play through, do you recommend just "Pieces of Eight" or are their any other options your fond of? If so why? I expect, With a little research I understand "Pieces of Eight" just changes it so that you need 8 pieces of salvage to build a mech, does that mean each piece has less value as sell salvage and is cheaper to buy? If so, that sounds pretty awesome. I was actually thinking it would be cool if you salvaged HD, CT, LT, RT, RA, LA, LL, RL but then thought it would suck if you had a bunch of arms but no center torsos. Does it change looting, for example, if you blow off a head in a first shot could you get 7 of 8 pieces? Assuming you can pick that much... maybe?

Edit: Looking around, it I am seeing just setting the mech parts to 3 and enemy difficulty to hard makes the game a lot more challenging but I am seeing some complaints that mech in pieces of 8 just results in a really long salvage time running a lot of side missions to build mechs but the fights difficulty is held shifted by priority missions, so players just play more easy missions until they get the mechs they need or attempt the priority mission with an armor warning that they don't have enough and will likely fail... only to prove that right. So They are recommending 4-5 mech pieces so slow mech building some but harder enemy settings to push pleasure but keep game pacing up... does that sound about right?

 

[Amechwarrior]

Good to know. So it's just a better understanding of game mechanics making everything so much easier. It was an extremely dramatic difference from my first play through, so I doubted it was me that had improved and its not unusual for developers to nerf early game to prevent from scaring away new players. I hate that so I am glad that's not the case.



I will give it tray a couple more missions past the Argo and see if it gets any harder. If not, I will try "Pieces of Eight" and look to see if there is anything else I want to add. I am considering making this a self imposed "Iron Man" run in the mean time. Its too late to change that in the settings but I don't mind having the ability to back up to the start of a mission when I get a "glitch click" that would destroy me (Though a confirmation before move, or a back one move, option of play would be better) . Not sure if its my PC, my mouse, me, or the game but no matter how careful I have been I can't seem to prevent the occasional one click deciding my move and facing. I bound "face target" to the "C" key and make it a standard practice to pick a decent target before trying to move, which doesn't prevent this but makes far more rare or at least ensures I can shoot one target and I am not pointing my back at the enemy.

For a second/third play through, do you recommend just "Pieces of Eight" or are their any other options your fond of? If so why? I expect, With a little research I understand "Pieces of Eight" just changes it so that you need 8 pieces of salvage to build a mech, does that mean each piece has less value as sell salvage and is cheaper to buy? If so, that sounds pretty awesome. I was actually thinking it would be cool if you salvaged HD, CT, LT, RT, RA, LA, LL, RL but then thought it would suck if you had a bunch of arms but no center torsos. Does it change looting, for example, if you blow off a head in a first shot could you get 7 of 8 pieces? Assuming you can pick that much... maybe?

I'd say start with 5 piece salvage, Hard OPFOR, pilot Xp Slow, low Salvage rate/normal pay rate, no rare salvage, non-equipped 'Mech assembly and CT destruction on. This isn't as grindy as 8 parts, but is a significant boost to the difficulty of keeping everything running. If you are doing a career, I'd also say edit the starting to the old Kiva stream start deck that swaps the PNT-9R for a LCT-1M. This keeps you in "Light Mode" longer and I've actually taken that 1M to the field vs waiting for some repair to finish.

 

[Harcagnel]

I'd say start with 5 piece salvage, Hard OPFOR, pilot Xp Slow, low Salvage rate/normal pay rate, no rare salvage, non-equipped 'Mech assembly and CT destruction on. This isn't as grindy as 8 parts, but is a significant boost to the difficulty of keeping everything running. If you are doing a career, I'd also say edit the starting to the old Kiva stream start deck that swaps the PNT-9R for a LCT-1M. This keeps you in "Light Mode" longer and I've actually taken that 1M to the field vs waiting for some repair to finish.

I like the list of settings. I hate low pay, so I am agreeing with normal. It might be the undervaluing of MechWarrior's life and death career or the reflection on real life but normal is good. Plus, I found in normal play, I a rarely bought anything because of all the salvage I had. I actually don't like Rare parts in the game at all. I find, it makes me want to protect mechs with arm++ parts for example instead of using them because they are hard to impossible to replace. In the end they need to be easer to get from stores or I will ignore them as a detractor the second time through.

CT destruction on, is that "mech destruction"? What does Lethality do? It seems like parts and unequipped mechs on build are the only options I can't change after the fact, so I might be able to mostly save this play through taking these options short those. (Most of this is meta game that would have effected one mission so far and I don't want to play the beginning part again so soon if I can help it. It will just seem like I had an easy few missions but it got harder.)

This is what I am looking at based on your recommendations.

-Campaign Start only-
Ironman (one save only
Unequipped Mechs (on assembly): Yes
Parts for Mech Assembly: 5

-After start changeable-
Enemy Force strength: Hard
Advanced MechWarrior's: Rare
Mech Destruction (CT destruction destroys mech to parts?): Yes
Contract Payment: Normal
Salvage: Stingy
Mech Warrior Progression (XP Gain): Slow
Lethality (Mech Warrior's can die?): Yes
No Rare Salvage (Removes + equipment?): Yes

 

[Amechwarrior]

I like the list of settings. I hate low pay, so I am agreeing with normal. It might be the undervaluing of MechWarrior's life and death career or the reflection on real life but normal is good. Plus, I found in normal play, I a rarely bought anything because of all the salvage I had. I actually don't like Rare parts in the game at all. I find, it makes me want to protect mechs with arm++ parts for example instead of using them because they are hard to impossible to replace. In the end they need to be easer to get from stores or I will ignore them as a detractor the second time through.

CT destruction on, is that "mech destruction"? What does Lethality do? It seems like parts and unequipped mechs on build are the only options I can't change after the fact, so I might be able to mostly save this play through taking these options short those. (Most of this is meta game that would have effected one mission so far and I don't want to play the beginning part again so soon if I can help it. It will just seem like I had an easy few missions but it got harder.)

This is what I am looking at based on your recommendations.

-Campaign Start only-
Ironman (one save only
Unequipped Mechs (on assembly): Yes
Parts for Mech Assembly: 5

-After start changeable-
Enemy Force strength: Hard
Advanced MechWarrior's: Rare
Mech Destruction (CT destruction destroys mech to parts?): Yes
Contract Payment: Normal
Salvage: Stingy
Mech Warrior Progression (XP Gain): Slow
Lethality (Mech Warrior's can die?): Yes
No Rare Salvage (Removes + equipment?): Yes

Sounds like you have a grasp of what you want and can go with it based on your own feelings. The Tutorial Skip, Un-Equipped Units and # of parts to complete are the only three you can't change after the fact. The rest you can adjust on the fly and are only applied on a per-save basis. So if you hit OPFOR Hard or Pay Stingy, only that save will have those settings,

Lethality - I prefer Lethality off as it gives a generally small chance a lethal blow won't be lethal based on the Guts skill ranking. A CT core is maybe slightly survivable and I think a headshot destruction less so, but it's generally a miracle. Also, there is the final Argo Med Bay upgrade that goes with this that is kind of pointless without it. This has been generally rare enough for me to not even really be an issue. I either eject ASAP, withdraw or just don't get in to those situations very often so the "miracle recovery" is still a novelty to me.

CT Destruction - CT Dest. is if you lose one of your units to CT destruction it is gone forever. This does not change anything about salvaging enemy units. With it off you never actually lose a 'Mech, but of course it is very expensive to repair them back to normal.

No Rare Salvage + Low Salvage Rate/Normal Pay - I hit on this combo as I found I was always maxing the salvage negotiations and never needing to buy things unless it was some super rare item like Gauss Ammo or maybe +3 Def Gyro/+3 Hit Cockpit. These three combined make it harder to just pay your way via salvage and you need a bank of cash to buy out the upgraded gear you happen upon in shops. Not being able to just salvage > sell 2+ 'Mechs every over mission due to 5 parts and norminal salvage rates means your monthly earnings go way down and I find myself backing off from max salvage for a more even money/parts spread. The No Rare Salvage means my salvage picks are always going to be parts, so if you had a normal rate, you'd still be drowning in parts and able to sell completed units.

5 Part Salvage - I found 8 is a real grind, but it feels very accomplished when you get a full medium Lance, however 5-6 parts strikes a nice balance between accomplishments and grinding burn out. The downside of the medium class is that there is a lot of them, it's hard to put them together sometimes as you keep getting more and more new variants/units 2-3 parts at a time. There are 17 medium variants in the stock game (19 w/FP) and only 15 heavies, but a good number of those Hvy units are very rare and TDR's are incredibly common.

Ironman - I can take or leave this one. I managed all of the pre-IM gameplay going "honorman" and I like being able to save if I hit a bugged mission so I can combat save, quit, enable debug mode and debug complete the mission if some OPFOR fails to spawn. This is incredibly rare, but it's happened to me in IM mode and I wished I could have had debug mode on to salvage that mission. That and life/family gets in the way so being able to stop and save at any time is nice.

 

[Sigil]

"Pieces of Eight" forces you field the lance that you have, not the lance that you want, if you're into that kind of thing. All of my other playthroughs were more a race toward a set of specific chassis, and many chassis I had storage, I never fielded. With salvage set to 8, putting together a Vindicator caused celebration equal to that a Highlander. It is a grind, though, little doubt there and finances are actually challenging with Pay and Salvage set to "Stingy." I actually can't afford to buy whatever I want, when I want. YMMV.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

I personally find that 5 pieces of salvage to be the sweet spot, however if you are looking for a long haul Career or Campaign, 8 pieces of salvage will definitely do it.

 

[Kranng]

Good to know. So it's just a better understanding of game mechanics making everything so much easier. It was an extremely dramatic difference from my first play through, so I doubted it was me that had improved and its not unusual for developers to nerf early game to prevent from scaring away new players. I hate that so I am glad that's not the case.



I will give it tray a couple more missions past the Argo and see if it gets any harder. If not, I will try "Pieces of Eight" and look to see if there is anything else I want to add. I am considering making this a self imposed "Iron Man" run in the mean time. Its too late to change that in the settings but I don't mind having the ability to back up to the start of a mission when I get a "glitch click" that would destroy me (Though a confirmation before move, or a back one move, option of play would be better) . Not sure if its my PC, my mouse, me, or the game but no matter how careful I have been I can't seem to prevent the occasional one click deciding my move and facing. I bound "face target" to the "C" key and make it a standard practice to pick a decent target before trying to move, which doesn't prevent this but makes far more rare or at least ensures I can shoot one target and I am not pointing my back at the enemy.

For a second/third play through, do you recommend just "Pieces of Eight" or are their any other options your fond of? If so why? I expect, With a little research I understand "Pieces of Eight" just changes it so that you need 8 pieces of salvage to build a mech, does that mean each piece has less value as sell salvage and is cheaper to buy? If so, that sounds pretty awesome. I was actually thinking it would be cool if you salvaged HD, CT, LT, RT, RA, LA, LL, RL but then thought it would suck if you had a bunch of arms but no center torsos. Does it change looting, for example, if you blow off a head in a first shot could you get 7 of 8 pieces? Assuming you can pick that much... maybe?

Edit: Looking around, it I am seeing just setting the mech parts to 3 and enemy difficulty to hard makes the game a lot more challenging but I am seeing some complaints that mech in pieces of 8 just results in a really long salvage time running a lot of side missions to build mechs but the fights difficulty is held shifted by priority missions, so players just play more easy missions until they get the mechs they need or attempt the priority mission with an armor warning that they don't have enough and will likely fail... only to prove that right. So They are recommending 4-5 mech pieces so slow mech building some but harder enemy settings to push pleasure but keep game pacing up... does that sound about right?

I've found the sweet spot of 5 parts (Legs, Arms, Center, R/L Torso; any 'old head will do!) as a great medium. You can't usually glean a 'mech from one missions salvage (default of 3) so it makes you work.

Leaving salvage as standard, however ramping up everything else to "mean debuff" is a very hard and challenging mission.

Case #37:

Dropping on a 2 skull mission with my 2 Firestarters (1 Flame, 1 190dmg med/sm laser light mech hunter loadhout) A Valkarie and a Falcon (maxed out w/ 6 sm Lasers) to find I have dropped in the middle of it. 1 vehicle (60T or 80T nasty tank; i'm too small to penetrate their armour by stopping...and shooting them) and a Bombardier, Trebuchet and a Stalker. Non stock loadout on the Treb - 4 med lasers and an LRM15 weird loadout.

Since I was only a heavy (120T) recon lance if memory serves, it was all about the pilots skills. Thank the siva for bullwark, extra pips and fast 'Mechs!

No deaths, no 'Mech lost and salvaged the Stalker - so at that point forward I had 6 light mechs and a stalker. (NB: 250 days later and I just got a dragon and I head shot'd an Orion about 4 months earlier otherwise just lights and mediums with that badass Stalker.)

 

[Mabberton]

I tried Pieces of 8 for a campaign run, and beyond slowing progression way down (which was fine), I found it made the jump from Mediums to Assaults (i.e., practically skipping over Heavies) to be much quicker and final. In that Campaign, I was in Mediums forever, then it seemed like I was in mostly Assaults after the **Special Mission** So I would definitely recommend 5 parts for a Campaign run.

Pieces of 8 would probably work better for a Career Mode, although I suspect it would lower your end score quite a bit.

 

[Icewraith]

I tried Pieces of 8 for a campaign run, and beyond slowing progression way down (which was fine), I found it made the jump from Mediums to Assaults (i.e., practically skipping over Heavies) to be much quicker and final. In that Campaign, I was in Mediums forever, then it seemed like I was in mostly Assaults after the **Special Mission** So I would definitely recommend 5 parts for a Campaign run.

Pieces of 8 would probably work better for a Career Mode, although I suspect it would lower your end score quite a bit.

Playing “Pieces of 8” basically means you should ignore scoring completely and just focus on keeping your head above water.

 

[Sigil]

Playing “Pieces of 8” basically means you should ignore scoring completely and just focus on keeping your head above water.

Well said.

 

[Harcagnel]

Sounds like you have a grasp of what you want and can go with it based on your own feelings. The Tutorial Skip, Un-Equipped Units and # of parts to complete are the only three you can't change after the fact. The rest you can adjust on the fly and are only applied on a per-save basis. So if you hit OPFOR Hard or Pay Stingy, only that save will have those settings,

Lethality - I prefer Lethality off as it gives a generally small chance a lethal blow won't be lethal based on the Guts skill ranking. A CT core is maybe slightly survivable and I think a headshot destruction less so, but it's generally a miracle. Also, there is the final Argo Med Bay upgrade that goes with this that is kind of pointless without it. This has been generally rare enough for me to not even really be an issue. I either eject ASAP, withdraw or just don't get in to those situations very often so the "miracle recovery" is still a novelty to me.

CT Destruction - CT Dest. is if you lose one of your units to CT destruction it is gone forever. This does not change anything about salvaging enemy units. With it off you never actually lose a 'Mech, but of course it is very expensive to repair them back to normal.

No Rare Salvage + Low Salvage Rate/Normal Pay - I hit on this combo as I found I was always maxing the salvage negotiations and never needing to buy things unless it was some super rare item like Gauss Ammo or maybe +3 Def Gyro/+3 Hit Cockpit. These three combined make it harder to just pay your way via salvage and you need a bank of cash to buy out the upgraded gear you happen upon in shops. Not being able to just salvage > sell 2+ 'Mechs every over mission due to 5 parts and norminal salvage rates means your monthly earnings go way down and I find myself backing off from max salvage for a more even money/parts spread. The No Rare Salvage means my salvage picks are always going to be parts, so if you had a normal rate, you'd still be drowning in parts and able to sell completed units.

5 Part Salvage - I found 8 is a real grind, but it feels very accomplished when you get a full medium Lance, however 5-6 parts strikes a nice balance between accomplishments and grinding burn out. The downside of the medium class is that there is a lot of them, it's hard to put them together sometimes as you keep getting more and more new variants/units 2-3 parts at a time. There are 17 medium variants in the stock game (19 w/FP) and only 15 heavies, but a good number of those Hvy units are very rare and TDR's are incredibly common.

Ironman - I can take or leave this one. I managed all of the pre-IM gameplay going "honorman" and I like being able to save if I hit a bugged mission so I can combat save, quit, enable debug mode and debug complete the mission if some OPFOR fails to spawn. This is incredibly rare, but it's happened to me in IM mode and I wished I could have had debug mode on to salvage that mission. That and life/family gets in the way so being able to stop and save at any time is nice.

Thanks for clarifying the settings. I changed my "after start" settings to reflect. I agree with lethality, a small chance of survival is fine, in fact its mentioned in the campaign, so I feel like making it 100% is counter the campaign.

-Campaign Start only-
Ironman (one auto save only): No
Unequipped Mechs (on assembly): Yes
Parts for Mech Assembly: 5

-After start changeable- Running now.
Enemy Force strength: Hard
Advanced MechWarrior's: Rare
Mech Destruction: Yes
Contract Payment: Normal
Salvage: Stingy
Mech Warrior Progression: Slow
Lethality: No
No Rare Salvage: Yes

Made the changes I could last night and played. It was still easy but I didn't run the first priority mission yet and was getting 90% Locust so I had more matching parts than expected and I got a mission to hunt a pirate leader and took out its legs by flanking the sides. As a result I have a hunchback before the first Priority mission, which I was excited about but then immediately worried it might make it too easy. I plan on moving forward today, assuming my wife doesn't have other plans, so we will see. I currently had to sell my light mechs to keep paying the bills, but I have them configured the way I want now but I realize, with Mech Destruction on, I am going to have a second string of mechs and pilots earlier than I did last play through. Will see how it goes.​

 

[Harcagnel]

Over all from the posts, It seems like I should try it with pieces of 4-5, so that I can't get a free mech from a single well placed head shot or leg hunting one mech. That alone should make it a lot more interesting getting upgrades. Then I should try pieces of 8 and see if I like it better. I might, do the story a third time with 5 and then try Career Mode for the first time with pieces of 8. I will continue with the more difficult settings I can control now until at least a few missions after the Argo so I can get a feel of how its changed the game. Thank you all. This has been a very useful thread conversation.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Also, I think you'll need to travel to regenerate contracts once you've adjusted the settings in an existing save.

 

[Harcagnel]

Also, I think you'll need to travel to regenerate contracts once you've adjusted the settings in an existing save.

I think I did, but I am not 100%. Regardless the priority mission should do the trick. lol.

 

[Harcagnel]

Just an update. I have been playing

-After start changeable- Running now.
Enemy Force strength: Hard
Advanced MechWarrior's: Rare
Mech Destruction: Yes
Contract Payment: Normal
Salvage: Stingy
Mech Warrior Progression: Slow
Lethality: No
No Rare Salvage: Yes

The changes did finally catch up after a priority mission. Fighting medium and heavy mechs after the second priority mission. I think I have seen 1 or 2 light mechs total. The fights are tougher and the money is tighter with repairs and needing to have a second string incase mechs get cored. That has only happened once so far, I lost a hunchback, but the pilot survived with a huge amount of time the hospital, but alive is good and on the same mission I took the legs out on a grasshopper and replaced it so... going well and more fun. I am really liking the tension of the possible lose of a mech and I have actually used the eject button to save another mech and pilot once now since I am running "Honor Man -". I add the "-" because I did allow a revert to save jump back from glitch click turning a back to a kintaro that then cored the mech and turned the tide of a battle with it and some help coring 3 of my mechs. Before I got it down. I realized I couldn't recover from that without having a second string established so jumped back to my last save... I will try a true "Honor Man" on a third campaign play through.

I do have one complaint. I which when they cored my mech, I would get 1 part in my list of loot options or just back in general. It just seems weird to me that you would core and enemy mech and get 1 part, but when they core yours but you win the mission, you get nothing. Not a big thing. I just figure, you should get 1 part from your fallen mech.

 

[unclecid]

i dont play with salvage as stingy....but whenever one of my mechs gets cored (ct destruction - -yes) i almost always get back its equipment in the salvage list.

 

[Harcagnel]

i dont play with salvage as stingy....but whenever one of my mechs gets cored (ct destruction - -yes) i almost always get back its equipment in the salvage list.

So you get equipment but not the 1 salvage you get from other mechs... well that's better than what I thought.