I wonder what flags Trebizond and Morea will use in EUIII. They can't use the Eastern Roman ones frome EUII, so what will they use?
Is there any information about that?
Is there any information about that?
Flags of Asia Minor and Balkans (incl. Byzantine splinter states)
- Thread starter Prince Ares
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I dunno, but I'm sure excited to find out! Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't they just recycle the Trbizond flag from EUII and use it for EUIII? And maybe they can make the Morea flag the CoA os the Palaeologi?
Prince Ares said:
No but I am sure Birger will know the correct ones
This one might be used for Trebizond
And this one for Morea
Or this one
Speaking of flags, why do the EGUFSM and the AGCEEP both give Austria the Habsburg family flag? Surely the correct flag would be the red & white flag? 
I think the pontian eagle would do in the first case. Check top right.
http://www.pontos.gr/
In the case of morea the Palaiologoi flag would do, as in 4 B's opposing a cross. (Think ACGEEP)
http://www.pontos.gr/
In the case of morea the Palaiologoi flag would do, as in 4 B's opposing a cross. (Think ACGEEP)
Flags of Asia Minor and Balkans
Candar (Candaroglu) Beyligi (Beydom/Duchy/Principality):
Karaman (Karamanoglu) Beyligi (Beydom/State/Principality):
Despotate of Morea:
Empire of Trebizond:
Principality of Zeta:
Ragusa Republic / Respublica Ragusina:
Duchy of Athens:
Candar (Candaroglu) Beyligi (Beydom/Duchy/Principality):
Karaman (Karamanoglu) Beyligi (Beydom/State/Principality):
Despotate of Morea:
Empire of Trebizond:
Principality of Zeta:
Ragusa Republic / Respublica Ragusina:
Duchy of Athens:
Do you also have the ottoman banner, the banner of Kayı? The one used before the imperial coat of arms.
Ottoman Empire / Devlet-i Ali-i Osmaniye / Osmanli Imparatorlugu:
As of 1453:
17th Century:
18th Century:
19th Century:
As of 1453:
17th Century:
18th Century:
19th Century:
There are my flags
The gold crescent on red is the correct flag for the entire EU3 period, so that one should probably be used.
The last person to use the Kayi banner as a state flag was Osman himself, and that was a long time ago even in 1453.
The flags listed as "18th century flag" etc, are all navy flags, which were not consistent even with each other. The number of crescents and stars (and even the number of points on the stars) is different depending on the rank of the captain of the vessel. Red flag with gold crescent is the only thing that could really be called the flag of the Ottoman Empire
Here is the way it actually looked, which you can see in Turkish miniatures of the Battle of Lepanto, etc:
If we can have army, navy and national flags as seperate things, then this should be the army flag:
and this should be the navy flag:
The thing about the navy flag though, is it was a flag of secondary importance placed far beneath the red Ottoman State flag.
The gold crescent on red is the correct flag for the entire EU3 period, so that one should probably be used.
The last person to use the Kayi banner as a state flag was Osman himself, and that was a long time ago even in 1453.
The flags listed as "18th century flag" etc, are all navy flags, which were not consistent even with each other. The number of crescents and stars (and even the number of points on the stars) is different depending on the rank of the captain of the vessel. Red flag with gold crescent is the only thing that could really be called the flag of the Ottoman Empire
Here is the way it actually looked, which you can see in Turkish miniatures of the Battle of Lepanto, etc:
If we can have army, navy and national flags as seperate things, then this should be the army flag:
and this should be the navy flag:
The thing about the navy flag though, is it was a flag of secondary importance placed far beneath the red Ottoman State flag.
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Mad King James said:
The question in my mind is which of those, if any, is the correct Ottoman flag. As far as I know there was no definite and standard Ottoman flag, used in a modern sense, until the reformation of the army in the 19th century. I think the only consistent symbol that Ottomans stood behind (other than flags with myriad of crescent or stars) was the kayi banner.
And it is interesting that Ottomans literally declared themselves Kayi during 15th century (IIRC it was during or after Bayezid II's reign). Before that neither the dynasty nor the freeman (i.e. not slaves) serving the dynasty declared themselves coming from a certain tribe, in fact they manufactured fake geneologies when they were confronted by tribes or emirates of nobler descent (think the tribes claiming their origins from Genghis Khan). And when they extinguished most emirates of Anatolia the Ottomans chose the tribe which they descended from...
Sorry, I have been toying with the idea of the Ottoman flag for some time and when I spotted the thread I wanted to share what I've been thinking. For game mechanics we must choose a certain Ottoman flag, however for 15-18th centuries, any flag (if such a term could be employed) that we deem appropriate won't be a correct one.
And thanks, tunc for the kayi flag.
All the miniatures of the period which have flags feature a slightly swallowtailed red flag with smallish golden crescent in the middle. The only time you ever see a different flag is if it is a battle scene (in which you see the army flag) or if it's a smaller flag placed underneath the big red-with-crescent flag.
The Sultan did have the kayihan flag in his menagerie of symbols, but it simply didn't mean anything after 1350.
The Sultan did have the kayihan flag in his menagerie of symbols, but it simply didn't mean anything after 1350.
Jayavarman said:Hehe. Wasn't the green flag originally used for the Ottomans in EU2?
For some reason, historians often confuse the Ottoman navy flag with the Ottoman state flag, because they were similar, sometimes very similar. This is further confused because Europeans as a rule did not have seperate "navy" flags, and so tended to classify Ottoman naval and rank flags throughout the centuries as the "Ottoman Flag". It doesn't help that most flag charts are made by merchantmen to identify the nationality of a ship by its flag, so of course they all list Ottoman naval flags because that's what they're looking out for, not an Ottoman state flag.
Good work but a bit wrong...
Duchy of Athens, Acciajouli arms, last ruler of the duchy
The one you posted is de la Roche arms, rulers of the duchy between 1205-1308.
Morea, the arms of the Paleologues dynasty in Greece.
The arms to the right is the coat of arms of Villehardouin, rulers of Morea between 1205-1307
Like Keravnos says the this arms could be used as too for Morea.
Empire of Trebizond, arms of the Comnenos, ruling dynasty of Trebizond.
You could use the one to the right as well, the emblem of the empire after the Palaeologans retook Constantinople.
For Ragusa you're correct on the flags, however this were their coat of arms:
Duchy of Athens, Acciajouli arms, last ruler of the duchy
The one you posted is de la Roche arms, rulers of the duchy between 1205-1308.
Morea, the arms of the Paleologues dynasty in Greece.
The arms to the right is the coat of arms of Villehardouin, rulers of Morea between 1205-1307
Like Keravnos says the this arms could be used as too for Morea.
Empire of Trebizond, arms of the Comnenos, ruling dynasty of Trebizond.
You could use the one to the right as well, the emblem of the empire after the Palaeologans retook Constantinople.
For Ragusa you're correct on the flags, however this were their coat of arms:
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Veldmaarschalk said:And this one for Morea
That's the arms of the Latin Empire of Constantinople.
mandead said:Speaking of flags, why do the EGUFSM and the AGCEEP both give Austria the Habsburg family flag? Surely the correct flag would be the red & white flag?
Correct flag for the Habsburg in EUII timeperiod would be this flag:
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Jayavarman said:Hehe. Wasn't the green flag originally used for the Ottomans in EU2?
I am rather partial to the Green flag myself.
o (Accurate or no)Ayeshteni
Tunch Khan said:Principality of Zeta:
Forgot the Zeta arms, that's almost correct, the eagle should be or (golden), instead of white and crowned.
Like this pic:
The Crnojevic Dynasty, rulers of Zeta 1435-1498
The arms you got there is perfect for Serbia.
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