Fixing the Imbalance??? Without Much Change

[unmerged(485892)]

I have read a bit of the stuff about how people feel the races have imbalances between them and i have not read any good ways to adress this issue in itself that i accept. A lot of what i have read is people who seem to believe this game is destined to have civilization like rock paper scissors balance when it really not. This game has three distinct races the balance between them should swing back and forth depending on there units and i agree there currently a little tipped in favor of monsters or undead depending on your preferance from what i have seen.

Changing the way the units work is not really an acceptable way to balance out these issues considering the setting of the game and the fact that aside from race balance when multiplayer gets released winning will be as much luck as skill dpending on the loot rewards you get for exploring and that i would love to stay a part of the game.

Now lets try brainstorming ways to balance this out in a way that doesnt actualy screw up the integrity of the game as is ill lead off with some suggestions add to them please

-Expand the roster of humans with berserkers or barbarian units the type of men who always live on the fringe of society in these fantasy setting specialized melee high attack mid range health and faster move speed than the other human equivalent serving as shock troops
-The powerful lords pre order units hint at a unit type that can be added to the humans in blademasters surely a full unit of these would be able to atleast stand alongside the other mid-late game units of other races
-Give humans mage-knights of some kind a warrior unit that combines magic into there very armor and weapon to attack
-Allow a research option that lets the humans mage college summon bind and strengthen otherwordly units like fire imps or some such equivalent unit we humans like to play with dangerous things so its probably a good bet we would summon and teather strong magical beings to our bidding

I know each race has shortcomings and id love to see suggestions that flesh out and cover each races apparent weakness so we dont need them to change the way existing units function too much we just fill the gaps left open in each race.

 

[unmerged(169594)]

You make some very good suggestions. One thing: you have very long, run-on sentences which are hard to read. Since the developers aren't native English speakers, they may struggle with those when they read the forums. Would you mind breaking your sentences up a bit more, using commas and more short sentences rather than a few long ones?

I do a lot of work with Russian people who are using English resources, and parsing long/complex sentences is one of their main difficulties (as with people trying to read foreign languages in general).

 

[unmerged(182689)]

Expand the roster of humans with berserkers or barbarian units the type of men who always live on the fringe of society in these fantasy setting specialized melee high attack mid range health and faster move speed than the other human equivalent serving as shock troops

Humans can already build these things. They're called "Rogues." They're actually pretty good.

The powerful lords pre order units hint at a unit type that can be added to the humans in blademasters surely a full unit of these would be able to atleast stand alongside the other mid-late game units of other races

Humans build Blademasters at a Temple of Krolm.

Give humans mage-knights of some kind a warrior unit that combines magic into there very armor and weapon to attack

How is that functionally different from Warriors/Veterans/Anything? It looks like you're just thinking of fluff to fix a mechanical issue, which really doesn't make any sense.

Allow a research option that lets the humans mage college summon bind and strengthen otherwordly units like fire imps or some such equivalent unit we humans like to play with dangerous things so its probably a good bet we would summon and teather strong magical beings to our bidding

Another magical unit might not be a bad idea, or another type of war machine from the Mechanist's Guild. The human roster has fewer normal units and more temple units than the other factions: 11 normal units not counting settlers/ships, and 7 temple units. Monsters have 14 normal units and 4 temple units. Undead have 13 normal units and four temple units. Temple units don't show up until later and you'll never get temples to so many gods anyway, so the Humans typically play with fewer unit types than the other factions.

I'd favor a buff to the units that perform relatively poorly instead of more units, though. If you try to fix a balance issue by adding units that are better, it just means people stop using the crappy units. Buff what they've got so it's all worthwhile instead. Here's an example of changes I'd make to help bring the Humans into line:

Warriors/Veterans movement increased from 3 to 4. (These guys are quite slow.)
Rangers (but not Hunters) range increased from 2 to 3. (Goblin Sharpshooters hit about as hard and have 50% melee/missile damage reduction. Rangers need help.)
Clerics/Healers healing spell increased in strength to match Shamans (8 to 10 and 14 to 15, respectively).
Clerics attack increased from 8 to 10.
Mages attack increased from 17 to 20. (Vampires do about as much damage as Mages do, but have 40% life steal, move faster, and are tougher.)
Catapult damage increased from 13 to 15. (Catapults do less damage than siege units like Trolls, which are an army by themselves. Catapults need to be babysat, so their vulnerability should be offset by greater effectiveness.)

 

[Astasia]

-Give humans mage-knights of some kind a warrior unit that combines magic into there very armor and weapon to attack

Your other points have already been addressed, but this role is pretty much already taken by Paladins of Dauros. They have extra spell damage on their attacks, and can cast a ranged spell nuke, all while being a very heavily armored knight unit.

 

[unmerged(485924)]

Humans need a tier 2 catapult (maybe with range 4 and an aoe on a cooldown?), like the monsters have a tier 2 Troll (I guess undead also have no tier 2 siege unit but I don't think they really need one). If you increase hunter range to 3 then I think lower damage by 1 point as well.

 

[unmerged(182689)]

(I guess undead also have no tier 2 siege unit but I don't think they really need one).

The Flying Line Galleus is a top tier siege unit.

 

[Viperswhip]

Easy fix, have a late building that gives a broadhead arrow buff or something and allows for decent damage against undead. Voila.

The computer AI human doesn't exactly perform poorly against the other race's AIs but then that's likely because the AI doesn't beeline for desired troops. I had Flying Line Galleus at one City, Vampire Lords and Dracoliches being pumped out each from a different city, while facing only the veteran troop types of the various AIs.

 

[Sifer2]

Changing the way the units work is not really an acceptable way to balance out these issues considering the setting of the game and the fact that aside from race balance when multiplayer gets released winning will be as much luck as skill dpending on the loot rewards you get for exploring and that i would love to stay a part of the game.

I kind of disagree. When multiplayer is added I would prefer luck to not be as huge a factor as it is currently. For example the random map generator needs the biased starts setting that Civilization has. Where it tries to make sure each capital has reasonable access to resources somewhere around it. Maybe not all but a fair share. Holy Grounds in particular MUST have this. Cause right now they are ridiculously important. Without them you don't have the best spells/units in the game.

But I do agree that taking away what makes the races unique in the name of balance is the wrong way to go. Human units probably do need some buffs to be on par. Or some of the monster/undead stuff needs a bit of nerfing. It's not a huge gap between them but it needs a little work.