Fixing the Dutch Coastline

[Pbhuh]

With 1.30 nearing the corner, we really need to discuss the a-historical dutch coastlines that are seemingly ignored. The Venetian island is being fixed, but the dutch coastline is still in need of it.

I have made a small mod yesterday to create a more historical accurate coastline including many small fixes, but the primary fix is to make Zeeland a group of islands, like it was historically, not like it is now.

Here you can see all the areas I have touched upon, as well as the rivers.

This is the map of vanilla at the moment and it seems like the coastline isnt changing for 1.30

I have the mod files for those who are interested in downloading it or using it themselves.

Sources for those who question the accuracy:

 

[Robska]

Ok, but what are you basing this on? current coastline? or do you have a map of a certain date?
I suppose you are Dutch so I dont think I have to tell you but the coastline has changed a lot of the last 400 years due to nature or hard working dutch people .

Looking at the rest of the map it would make sense to add the Ijssel river but not the Oude Maas. The Oude Maas is just too small, even back then. And is that top orange river supposed to be the Spui? That is definitely too small.

 

[Pbhuh]

Ok, but what are you basing this on? current coastline? or do you have a map of a certain date?
I suppose you are Dutch so I dont think I have to tell you but the coastline has changed a lot of the last 400 years due to nature or hard working dutch people .

Looking at the rest of the map it would make sense to add the Ijssel river but not the Oude Maas. The Oude Maas is just too small, even back then. And is that top orange river supposed to be the Spui? That is definitely too small.

I based this on historical coastlines of maps ive gathered over the years and atlasses ive found and books ive collected.

The coastline is aproximately between the 1500 and 1600s with the exception of things like inland lakes like the haarlemmermeer.

As you can see ive taken out things like the Wieringermeerpolder. Poldered in 1920s.

And reestablished the islands in Zeeland. Cutting off Zuid Beveland from Walcheren and Zuid Beveland from Bergen Op Zoom.

Ive taken out a chunk of Friesland near the middelzee and the bild which was not surrounded by dikes yet and i should probably also add in the lauwerszee.

On regards to the river ive decided to make to make it as complex as possible. What this means is that the Waal, Lower Rhine/Lek and Meuse/Maas are represented, but ive decided to merge the Bergse Maas and Waal into the Haringvliet instead of going through the nieuwe maas into Rotterdam, as doing so is nearly impossible in modding.

Orange was what i tried to represent straights to Zeeland with.

- - -

All in all its a simplification of the true story, but a much better simplification than what we have now.

 

[gronak]

Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.

 

[Pbhuh]

Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.

This mod actually made a mistake, Since 1000 there has never been an inland see in the southern Friesland province. It doesnt properly seperate the island of Wierigen from Westfriesland and it connects all of Zuid-Beveland, Noord-Beveland and Walcheren together.

 

[Robska]

I based this on historical coastlines of maps ive gathered over the years and atlasses ive found and books ive collected.

The coastline is aproximately between the 1500 and 1600s with the exception of things like inland lakes like the haarlemmermeer.

As you can see ive taken out things like the Wieringermeerpolder. Poldered in 1920s.

And reestablished the islands in Zeeland. Cutting off Zuid Beveland from Walcheren and Zuid Beveland from Bergen Op Zoom.

Ive taken out a chunk of Friesland near the middelzee and the bild which was not surrounded by dikes yet and i should probably also add in the lauwerszee.

On regards to the river ive decided to make to make it as complex as possible. What this means is that the Waal, Lower Rhine/Lek and Meuse/Maas are represented, but ive decided to merge the Bergse Maas and Waal into the Haringvliet instead of going through the nieuwe maas into Rotterdam, as doing so is nearly impossible in modding.

Orange was what i tried to represent straights to Zeeland with.

- - -

All in all its a simplification of the true story, but a much better simplification than what we have now.

I actually confused the pictures with the above being the current and the bottom your changes. I wondered why you choose to add the Wieringermeerpolder. In that case it is a good change even more so for Zeeland with Walcheren, Noord Beveland and Zuid Beveland seperated.

You could possibly make a bit more room inland for the IJ river/inland sea.

I agree with your last sentence. You cant make it perfect because this area has changed so much over the years so you have to make concessions.

As a little side note, I am currenty working on a low countries mod for Imperator Rome. It is a total overhaul in which I try to recreate the low countries and the adjacent nations starting in 1428. That means that every little settlement to the big towns are represented. Thought you maybe would like it. Might release in a month or two.

Spoiler: IR

 

[Pbhuh]

I actually confused the pictures with the above being the current and the bottom your changes. I wondered why you choose to add the Wieringermeerpolder. In that case it is a good change even more so for Zeeland with Walcheren, Noord Beveland and Zuid Beveland seperated.

You could possibly make a bit more room inland for the IJ river/inland sea.

I agree with your last sentence. You cant make it perfect because this area has changed so much over the years so you have to make concessions.

As a little side note, I am currenty working on a low countries mod for Imperator Rome. It is a total overhaul in which I try to recreate the low countries and the adjacent nations starting in 1428. That means that every little settlement to the big towns are represented. Thought you maybe would like it. Might release in a month or two.

Spoiler: IR

View attachment 550536

Its very lovely, though the maybe there could be something done for the Biesbosch. Its the area of sea between Breda/N-Brabant and Holland around Dordrecht.

Its a really interesting area as in 1428 I believe the Hoekse waard had just been flooded by the Saint Elizabeth's Flood. Maybe you could make it a submerged owned area of land.

 

[holyvigil]

Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.

That's pretty. Islands are fun.

 

[TheWalttu]

That looks really good, I second the Venice treatment for Zeeland.