Pbhuh

Colonel
79 Badges
Sep 12, 2017
965
1.795
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
With 1.30 nearing the corner, we really need to discuss the a-historical dutch coastlines that are seemingly ignored. The Venetian island is being fixed, but the dutch coastline is still in need of it.

I have made a small mod yesterday to create a more historical accurate coastline including many small fixes, but the primary fix is to make Zeeland a group of islands, like it was historically, not like it is now.


20200303013321_1.jpg


Here you can see all the areas I have touched upon, as well as the rivers.

1235ned.png


This is the map of vanilla at the moment and it seems like the coastline isnt changing for 1.30

20200303174754_1.jpg


I have the mod files for those who are interested in downloading it or using it themselves.

Sources for those who question the accuracy:

0e8e9789529329b86397502bcd89ea56.png B-ned.png Zeeland_1500.png Republiek_der_Zeven_Verenigde_Nederlanden.svg.png
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Robska

Sergeant
38 Badges
Jan 3, 2018
94
44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Ok, but what are you basing this on? current coastline? or do you have a map of a certain date?
I suppose you are Dutch so I dont think I have to tell you but the coastline has changed a lot of the last 400 years due to nature or hard working dutch people ;).

Looking at the rest of the map it would make sense to add the Ijssel river but not the Oude Maas. The Oude Maas is just too small, even back then. And is that top orange river supposed to be the Spui? That is definitely too small.
 

Pbhuh

Colonel
79 Badges
Sep 12, 2017
965
1.795
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
Ok, but what are you basing this on? current coastline? or do you have a map of a certain date?
I suppose you are Dutch so I dont think I have to tell you but the coastline has changed a lot of the last 400 years due to nature or hard working dutch people ;).

Looking at the rest of the map it would make sense to add the Ijssel river but not the Oude Maas. The Oude Maas is just too small, even back then. And is that top orange river supposed to be the Spui? That is definitely too small.

I based this on historical coastlines of maps ive gathered over the years and atlasses ive found and books ive collected.

The coastline is aproximately between the 1500 and 1600s with the exception of things like inland lakes like the haarlemmermeer.

As you can see ive taken out things like the Wieringermeerpolder. Poldered in 1920s.

And reestablished the islands in Zeeland. Cutting off Zuid Beveland from Walcheren and Zuid Beveland from Bergen Op Zoom.

Ive taken out a chunk of Friesland near the middelzee and the bild which was not surrounded by dikes yet and i should probably also add in the lauwerszee.

On regards to the river ive decided to make to make it as complex as possible. What this means is that the Waal, Lower Rhine/Lek and Meuse/Maas are represented, but ive decided to merge the Bergse Maas and Waal into the Haringvliet instead of going through the nieuwe maas into Rotterdam, as doing so is nearly impossible in modding.

Orange was what i tried to represent straights to Zeeland with.

- - -

All in all its a simplification of the true story, but a much better simplification than what we have now.
 
Last edited:

gronak

Colonist
35 Badges
Jun 1, 2015
1.645
2.056
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

522D29599DC4CAFCFDC1AF507415AB4C6434CB1D



I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.
 

Pbhuh

Colonel
79 Badges
Sep 12, 2017
965
1.795
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

522D29599DC4CAFCFDC1AF507415AB4C6434CB1D



I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.


This mod actually made a mistake, Since 1000 there has never been an inland see in the southern Friesland province. It doesnt properly seperate the island of Wierigen from Westfriesland and it connects all of Zuid-Beveland, Noord-Beveland and Walcheren together.

Guide.png


Wieringermeerpolder.jpg
 
Last edited:

Robska

Sergeant
38 Badges
Jan 3, 2018
94
44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I based this on historical coastlines of maps ive gathered over the years and atlasses ive found and books ive collected.

The coastline is aproximately between the 1500 and 1600s with the exception of things like inland lakes like the haarlemmermeer.

As you can see ive taken out things like the Wieringermeerpolder. Poldered in 1920s.

And reestablished the islands in Zeeland. Cutting off Zuid Beveland from Walcheren and Zuid Beveland from Bergen Op Zoom.

Ive taken out a chunk of Friesland near the middelzee and the bild which was not surrounded by dikes yet and i should probably also add in the lauwerszee.

On regards to the river ive decided to make to make it as complex as possible. What this means is that the Waal, Lower Rhine/Lek and Meuse/Maas are represented, but ive decided to merge the Bergse Maas and Waal into the Haringvliet instead of going through the nieuwe maas into Rotterdam, as doing so is nearly impossible in modding.

Orange was what i tried to represent straights to Zeeland with.

- - -

All in all its a simplification of the true story, but a much better simplification than what we have now.

I actually confused the pictures with the above being the current and the bottom your changes. I wondered why you choose to add the Wieringermeerpolder. In that case it is a good change even more so for Zeeland with Walcheren, Noord Beveland and Zuid Beveland seperated.

You could possibly make a bit more room inland for the IJ river/inland sea.

I agree with your last sentence. You cant make it perfect because this area has changed so much over the years so you have to make concessions.

As a little side note, I am currenty working on a low countries mod for Imperator Rome. It is a total overhaul in which I try to recreate the low countries and the adjacent nations starting in 1428. That means that every little settlement to the big towns are represented. Thought you maybe would like it. Might release in a month or two.

forum_post.png
 

Pbhuh

Colonel
79 Badges
Sep 12, 2017
965
1.795
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
I actually confused the pictures with the above being the current and the bottom your changes. I wondered why you choose to add the Wieringermeerpolder. In that case it is a good change even more so for Zeeland with Walcheren, Noord Beveland and Zuid Beveland seperated.

You could possibly make a bit more room inland for the IJ river/inland sea.

I agree with your last sentence. You cant make it perfect because this area has changed so much over the years so you have to make concessions.

As a little side note, I am currenty working on a low countries mod for Imperator Rome. It is a total overhaul in which I try to recreate the low countries and the adjacent nations starting in 1428. That means that every little settlement to the big towns are represented. Thought you maybe would like it. Might release in a month or two.


Its very lovely, though the maybe there could be something done for the Biesbosch. Its the area of sea between Breda/N-Brabant and Holland around Dordrecht.

Its a really interesting area as in 1428 I believe the Hoekse waard had just been flooded by the Saint Elizabeth's Flood. Maybe you could make it a submerged owned area of land.
 

holyvigil

General
45 Badges
Oct 15, 2016
1.815
1.395
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Tinholt's mod did this in great detail (mod was made a long time ago before new provinces were added - he did not want to add extra provinces to make it feel vanilla):

522D29599DC4CAFCFDC1AF507415AB4C6434CB1D



I really hope to see something like this added to the base game. I'd also like to add that with East Frisia shaped as Tinholt did, it makes for far nicer looking borders for a Netherlands who owns it.

That's pretty. Islands are fun.
 

TheWalttu

Second Lieutenant
46 Badges
Aug 10, 2015
194
220
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
That looks really good, I second the Venice treatment for Zeeland.