• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(41044)

Captain
Mar 7, 2005
330
0
I've only been playing a short while, but I'm already disturbed by how easy I can make my time in the GC simply by only researching the 'right' techs. As a land based power I know I have to get those decent medium tanks, one of (fighters/interceptors), etc. Basically by eliminating the less rewarding/duplication of effort I get a technical advantage I can exploit against the weak battle AI to the extent of beating very enormously (numerically) superior foes.

Obviously that's not how it worked in '36. Nobody really knew how good the end result of research would be - Stalin couldn't foresee that lots of Mig3s would be a better choice than bothering with Lagg-3s for instance (I know the difference isn't that great but it always frustrated me in accurate simulations that I had far more not-so-good Laggs rather than the pretty-decent Migs). Nobody knew exactly how long it would take to get a useable version of the Panther into production, nor just how well it would perform. Obviously they had a fair idea that it would be good - but not really the cost/benefit of driving all their energies in that direction, rather than toward the Tiger.

In order to realistically simulate this you would have to apply random pluses and minuses to the models so a player doesn't know what he's getting - until a given model has seen statistically significant combat. But I really doubt anyone would be happy with that, and it wouldn't be feasible before 1.9, say. ;-)

Instead how about :

Every tech has a random multiplier between 0.8 and 5 (ouch) for it's length of R&D time. The player gets only the estimated 1.0 multiplier end date. Restarting the research with a different team gets a different multiplier.

Implications:

You can't rely on getting that perfect force mix for your next campaign. It actually makes sense to spread your tech efforts wide in order to find those 'easy' techs. You will need to adapt your strategy according to what you can get off the drawing board first.

If this were to be used I'd suggest a significant reduction in the 'early' research penalty, to allow a bit more of a push in a direction where your researchers are doing well.

Comments/suggestions?
 
Upvote 0

Klavo Hunter

Colonel
40 Badges
Feb 13, 2005
1.016
0
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Lead and Gold
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
You know how bad that's screw the AI over? The AI starts researching some worthless Naval tech for a landlocked country, and their research is screwed over for 2 years if they nail a 5 with a bad tech team...
 

KILLER BOB

The King of Killer Monkey's
11 Badges
Jul 18, 2004
650
0
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
or we could just go back to the system from hoi 1 :confused: :confused: :confused:
*smack on head* or maybe we could fuse the victoria research system with the new hoi 2 system in some odd strange way...hmmmmmm...
*goes off to ponder and mod*
 

unmerged(3221)

[retired] FM
Apr 20, 2001
11.491
0
Visit site
I don't see how hindsight can be kept out of a game that tries to simulate history. Look at the other stuff that uses hindsight like events and leaders or what players know already about WW2.

Research paths require hindsight. The game has invested a lot in setting up some graphic flowcharts - that is very unlikely to change.

A lot of players would like to still use the very detailed HOI tech tree which required enormous amounts of hindsight.

Look at how people clamored for knowing when their research would finish like they could know in the original HOI. How many people are using the program which spells out very well when the research will finish and what research teams are best?

If anything, most players want more certainty about research, not less.

And this would probably mean even more complaints about perceived AI cheats (how would you know that the AI doesn't have the same uncertainties?) not to mention having to program yet another AI parameter. Since the AI often does stupid things such as a landlocked country researching naval things or the AI focusing on creating crappy tanks rather than good inf, adding another research parameter for the AI would need a lot of work as Klavohunter mentioned.

More realistic = yes. Game enhancement = no
 

DukePingwin

Sergeant
42 Badges
Feb 25, 2004
83
37
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Hindsight on techs isn't altered with modifiers to the research time. Even if the time is variable, I'll still focus on getting Panthers quickly. It will only make it harder for me to get my unit mix the way I like it at a date I have in mind for a major operation.

I as a player know what I want because I have a certain type of operation/campaign/war in mind and I need matching forces.

I am not suggesting to paradox to implement this idea but it would help i think.
If the AI would also make a prediction about what type of war to wage and use that to pick a research path and production plan, that could massively disrupt my plans. What if the Russia AI decides to prepare for a defensive strategy for 1940-1941 and decides the enemy will use a lot of armour. Russia develops decent AT guns, builds 30-50 AT upgrades and deploys them in groups of 3 divisions all with the AT guns. With my dependancy on armoured groups I wouldn't be very happy about seeing the enemy somewhat better prepared that I expected. It will wear my armor down a lot quicker than normal.

The AI could even use the army comparison ledger to see if it will have a requirement for AT regiments. If the germans build more than X armoured divisions start the AT development and production plan. Or the AI could 'cheat' and consider the techs I currently develop and the stuff in the que to make its decisions. I wouldn't really mind such a 'cheat'.