Fixed Muslim, Pagan factions

[DivineShadow]

Geez Divine that was quick!!

I have been testing your other mods, not a single crash or amything weird, I'll say it again GREAT WORK. Not too sure about the female inherting one, I dont think it was all that common in history, in my testing a younger male will inherit over and older sister, although you say:



Maybe this depends upon which inheritence law you have. I will be testing the Religious Enemy mod and get back to you with feedback. I don think the Crusades will necessarily be a problem, I am quite proficient at making events and can whip up some TAG specific ones. E.g. Are Castile / Castilian Culture, Crusade target = Valencia. A) Take up the cross (get claim on Valencia and and Crusader trait). B) No I am an impious chicken (coward, - piety, etc). This could also be a good thing as these events can encourage the more historical crusader nations (and discourage Croatia from crusading in Iberia, etc).

I'm guessing it's to do with laws in my nation at least it went by age (can't say if this is same for all nations.)

 

[unmerged(44651)]

What about the ability to arrange weddings for people( different dynasty of course) in your court? like in old CK versions?

 

[unmerged(30936)]

Really great, it would help to make the iberia problem more realistic.
Now to make it even more realistic, somebody have to mod the existing scenarios to give claims to Christian/Orthodox rulers against their Muslim/pagans neighbours (and against the holy lands, to make the crusades possible) and vice-versa (Claim for Muslim against their "religious enemy" neighbours).
When I come back from my work I'll try your mod.

 

[DivineShadow]

Really great, it would help to make the iberia problem more realistic.
Now to make it even more realistic, somebody have to mod the existing scenarios to give claims to Christian/Orthodox rulers against their Muslim/pagans neighbours (and against the holy lands, to make the crusades possible) and vice-versa (Claim for Muslim against their "religious enemy" neighbours).
When I come back from my work I'll try your mod.

I'm not that interested in making events (although i can) if somebody wants to take care of that it would be good.

 

[Grell74]

Sure I will make some events to go with the "Claims needed for religious enemies" mod. In testing I notice that only Catholics are effected, ie. Muslims can still attack Christians without needing claims (this is not necessarily a bad thing as Muslims are so underpowered now anyway). I am also prepared to go through the scenario files and add in all historical claims (this way the AI can be nudged along fairly historical paths) No more Shiekdom of Praha syndrome Yay! However as there will most likely be signifiicant changes to the scenario files when 1.05 comes out I will wait till then before finalising. Any suggestions are welcome. Some obvious ones off the top of my head:

England Over Scotland (or at least border provinces) and Brittany
Apuila over Sicily, and parts of Byz
Germany over parts of Italy, Papacy??

 

[DivineShadow]

Sure I will make some events to go with the "Claims needed for religious enemies" mod. In testing I notice that only Catholics are effected, ie. Muslims can still attack Christians without needing claims (this is not necessarily a bad thing as Muslims are so underpowered now anyway). I am also prepared to go through the scenario files and add in all historical claims (this way the AI can be nudged along fairly historical paths) No more Shiekdom of Praha syndrome Yay! However as there will most likely be signifiicant changes to the scenario files when 1.05 comes out I will wait till then before finalising. Any suggestions are welcome. Some obvious ones off the top of my head:

England Over Scotland (or at least border provinces) and Brittany
Apuila over Sicily, and parts of Byz
Germany over parts of Italy, Papacy??

Find all bugs and what needs adding *religions* and i will do it

 

[unmerged(30936)]

I've seen the same problem... it work for the christian/orthodox, not for the muslim/pagan.
Well why not a rapid conquer for the Muslim/pagan, but the problem is during the peace.
For example, you hold one county of your muslim enemy, and he just have take one of your county. Your warscore still positive (it don't count the taken province by your enemy).
So even if you are loosing all your counties one by one, but you hold some of his territories you can make a peace really good for you and recover all your provinces etc...
Don't know what to change, it would be really cool that muslim and pagan work like christian/orthodox.
Don't know if it's possible.

I've beginning working on the claims to make something realistic.

 

[DivineShadow]

I've seen the same problem... it work for the christian/orthodox, not for the muslim/pagan.
Well why not a rapid conquer for the Muslim/pagan, but the problem is during the peace.
For example, you hold one county of your muslim enemy, and he just have take one of your county. Your warscore still positive (it don't count the taken province by your enemy).
So even if you are loosing all your counties one by one, but you hold some of his territories you can make a peace really good for you and recover all your provinces etc...
Don't know what to change, it would be really cool that muslim and pagan work like christian/orthodox.
Don't know if it's possible.

I've beginning working on the claims to make something realistic.

Yes muslim and pagan can also need claims i just havent got around to doing it yet.

 

[DivineShadow]

Took awhile (i was busy) but i decided to fix the mod (before going to bed) so here it is :

I fixed *muslims, pagan title claim thingy* so now it doesnt just work with catholic, orthodox it also works with muslims and pagans.

Just redownload it :
Download Here

Or download from first page on topic.

 

[Grell74]

Nice job Divine, this greatly increases the historical plausibilty of how the game plays out now - no Reconquista in 15 years, or Baltic Pagans wiped out before the crusades. It does however require a bit of "re-conceptualising" of the term "claim", I might mod it in the db/config so the tooltips better represent this. I look at it more as "war motivation" rather than claim, i.e. do the casitlians have "war motivation" to attack the Iberian muslims.

 

[unmerged(33590)]

Nice job Divine, this greatly increases the historical plausibilty of how the game plays out now - no Reconquista in 15 years, or Baltic Pagans wiped out before the crusades. It does however require a bit of "re-conceptualising" of the term "claim", I might mod it in the db/config so the tooltips better represent this. I look at it more as "war motivation" rather than claim, i.e. do the casitlians have "war motivation" to attack the Iberian muslims.

WOW, great mod!

Actually I would re-conceptualize it as "colonization ability." The big reason the Spanish and Germans were able to conquer their respective Muslim and Pagan next door neighbors was that they IN PARTICULAR had access to a large influx of land-hungry Christian colonists ready to move into and help assimilate the newly conquered lands.

The Crusades even had this going for them, to much more limited extent, in the influx of pilgrims to the Holy Land in the early years. When the flow of pilgrims began to dry up, the Crusader States began to have serious problems.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Great mod i just found out about!

I have a couple questions though, mostly about the mongols.

1. I saw changed things so mongol culture is given instead just to the ilkantate and golden horde. Can this be disabled because it would conflict directly with my timurid empire mod (which i intend to update once the beta goes into lockdown)? I gave them mongol culture specifically because they needed it to mimic their speed and level of conquest, plus it has some historic justification.

Also the betas have gone a bit more toward trying to break-up the mongol horde over time. The successor states should also have a chance, especially if the original one dies, to take up the mantle.

2. How well does this work with mongols? Are they able to go to war right away and take large swaths of land? This is really key for my mod.

3. This is non-mongol related, but as i've yet to try the mod because of these things, iff you are religous enemeis and have claims, does land automatically change hands or must you sue for peace?

If you must sue, why are mongols not exempt?

If not, this really hurts one of the key things the mongols had on their side when fighting the same religion for a reason.

Thanks,

Jinnai

 

[DivineShadow]

Great mod i just found out about!

I have a couple questions though, mostly about the mongols.

1. I saw changed things so mongol culture is given instead just to the ilkantate and golden horde. Can this be disabled because it would conflict directly with my timurid empire mod (which i intend to update once the beta goes into lockdown)? I gave them mongol culture specifically because they needed it to mimic their speed and level of conquest, plus it has some historic justification.

Also the betas have gone a bit more toward trying to break-up the mongol horde over time. The successor states should also have a chance, especially if the original one dies, to take up the mantle.

2. How well does this work with mongols? Are they able to go to war right away and take large swaths of land? This is really key for my mod.

3. This is non-mongol related, but as i've yet to try the mod because of these things, iff you are religous enemeis and have claims, does land automatically change hands or must you sue for peace?

If you must sue, why are mongols not exempt?

If not, this really hurts one of the key things the mongols had on their side when fighting the same religion for a reason.

Thanks,

Jinnai

1. Dont use the mongol mod and there is no need to disable it.
2. With the mod Golden Horde and Il-Kharnate are the same no changes at all they can go off and conqure as usual just. It just doesnt give *mongol* the advantage like if king of scotland is mongol he has no *Golden Horde* mongol abilities.
3. Depends if you use the *claims mod* if you use the claims mod you need claims and sue for peace and get only stuff you have a claim to. Although if you use the *fixed muslim,pagan* mod then everything is same as normal game you can go off and conqure religious enemies land.

Golden Horde and Il-Kharnate have not been changed in any mods.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

1. Dont use the mongol mod and there is no need to disable it.
2. With the mod Golden Horde and Il-Kharnate are the same no changes at all they can go off and conqure as usual just. It just doesnt give *mongol* the advantage like if king of scotland is mongol he has no *Golden Horde* mongol abilities.
3. Depends if you use the *claims mod* if you use the claims mod you need claims and sue for peace and get only stuff you have a claim to. Although if you use the *fixed muslim,pagan* mod then everything is same as normal game you can go off and conqure religious enemies land.

Golden Horde and Il-Kharnate have not been changed in any mods.

1. Ok

2. I see. Like i said though, MrT has been pressing to change it so succesor states can battle it out for control of the western front, so perhaps this might need tweaking eventually. if its because your worried about the explioitviceness for humans, could you just make it so humans with mongol culture (other than those two nations maybe) don't get the benifits?

3. I see. But that really gets rid of one of the key mongol bonuses for same-religion wars. They should really be exempt from this or else it handicaps them for historical conquests. I'd like to use it, but as long as that remains it seriously impacts mongols more than anything else, even more than their non-attrition bonus, because they are as it is often relucatant to go to war right away and most of those troops are wasted away, so now its even harder on them to act historically and rampage europe.

 

[DivineShadow]

1. Ok

2. I see. Like i said though, MrT has been pressing to change it so succesor states can battle it out for control of the western front, so perhaps this might need tweaking eventually. if its because your worried about the explioitviceness for humans, could you just make it so humans with mongol culture (other than those two nations maybe) don't get the benifits?

3. I see. But that really gets rid of one of the key mongol bonuses for same-religion wars. They should really be exempt from this or else it handicaps them for historical conquests. I'd like to use it, but as long as that remains it seriously impacts mongols more than anything else, even more than their non-attrition bonus, because they are as it is often relucatant to go to war right away and most of those troops are wasted away, so now its even harder on them to act historically and rampage europe.

If you want normal mongols to have *golden horde* special abilities it will simply cause them to declare war on anybody and with no demise limit, no attrition they will cause lots of problems this is why my idea was to limit this to golden horde and kharnate.

 

[sumdood]

keep up the good work with the mods.

could you make it possible for pagans/muslims to have multiple wives?

can you make it to where only one law of succession allows females to inherit instead of all of them?

thanks!

 

[unmerged(30936)]

For the "claim" mod, I've seen that you can vassalize or propose marriage to muslim or pagan (great!!!!!).
But don't have tested it a lot for the moment to see if IA do it or not. For the moment it seems like christian still prefer marrying with christian, muslim with muslim, orthodox with orthodox etc.... if someone can test and confirm that.

I don't know if it can be modded, but it would be really great that claiming the territories of one of our religious enemy cost you less than claiming it to someone of the same religion. Like if you religious enemy had the trait excomunicated.

The idea is to kept the idea of religious enemy and greats wars against the infidel, but with a more realistic way of conquering it (making peace, alliance, mariage, vassalizing etc...). And it will make Crusades possibles and realistic with the claim mod (for the moment they tend to not attack jerusalem during the crusades because they don't have claim).

 

[DivineShadow]

For the "claim" mod, I've seen that you can vassalize or propose marriage to muslim or pagan (great!!!!!).
But don't have tested it a lot for the moment to see if IA do it or not. For the moment it seems like christian still prefer marrying with christian, muslim with muslim, orthodox with orthodox etc.... if someone can test and confirm that.

I don't know if it can be modded, but it would be really great that claiming the territories of one of our religious enemy cost you less than claiming it to someone of the same religion. Like if you religious enemy had the trait excomunicated.

The idea is to kept the idea of religious enemy and greats wars against the infidel, but with a more realistic way of conquering it (making peace, alliance, mariage, vassalizing etc...). And it will make Crusades possibles and realistic with the claim mod (for the moment they tend to not attack jerusalem during the crusades because they don't have claim).

I guess it could be possible to create like a *excommunicated* effect on religious enemies. Havent tried though.

(It would cause all titles to be super cheap to grab probably causing everybody to flood to holy land)

 

[unmerged(30936)]

I guess it could be possible to create like a *excommunicated* effect on religious enemies. Havent tried though.

(It would cause all titles to be super cheap to grab probably causing everybody to flood to holy land)

Mmmmh... you're probably right, playing in coward/hard could help.

To make it perfect, claiming a territory from a religious enemy should be cheaper than claiming one from someone who had the same religion as you.
Claiming territories from a religious enemy shouldn't give you BB, and taking that territory should give you some piety.

 

[DivineShadow]

Mmmmh... you're probably right, playing in coward/hard could help.

To make it perfect, claiming a territory from a religious enemy should be cheaper than claiming one from someone who had the same religion as you.
Claiming territories from a religious enemy shouldn't give you BB, and taking that territory should give you some piety.

Doesnt excommunicated do that already?.

One idea i had was quite simple...make an event that fires very often which turns the all *muslim* *pagan* into *excommunicated*

Simple to do. I wonder if it will do what we want?.