Fix Fatamids

[Sleight of Hand]

I've just noticed that the new Imperial Restoration CB type is for the Byzantines -- I assumed it would be a feature unique to the restored Roman Empire, which would make sense and maintain balance -- which means they can start a de jure war for territory in Anglo-Saxon England in 1066. What the Hell? This is by far the most ludicrously imbalanced design decision I've seen so far. Imagine if someone like me had suggested this in the bug forum a few months back; Veld or one of the developers would have told me I was either stupid, insane or trolling. The fact that it's now in the vanilla game (are there even any criteria for it?) is... a bad move.

Combine this with the existing (and possibly worse as of 1.07) situation with the Fatimids, and the age-old problem of Ethiopia (good luck surviving until 1100, never mind the 1900s) and yeah, game balance in the East is totally screwed.

(Sorry to rant, but I just think some of these features/decisions are just so poorly thought-out...)

 

[dauncosony]

The Muslim Invasion CB should not give you the whole de jure kingdom lands, only the provinces you occupy within that de jure realm. The problem with targeting a de jure area is the broken de jure drift. I have seen Franconia get incorporated into the Kingdom of Jerusalem and when it seceded from the Holy Roman Empire, it got invaded. Now there are Muslims in the middle of Central Europe.

 

[Lord Finnish]

The Muslim Invasion CB should not give you the whole de jure kingdom lands, only the provinces you occupy within that de jure realm. The problem with targeting a de jure area is the broken de jure drift. I have seen Franconia get incorporated into the Kingdom of Jerusalem and when it seceded from the Holy Roman Empire, it got invaded. Now there are Muslims in the middle of Central Europe.

I just edited the Invasion to target duchy-level titles. Did the trick for me.

 

[ASPGolan]

If you manage a decisive strike on the muslim world with the BE, then they get eaten up in internal feuds in all my games. I've started as a doux and the emperor managed to repel the first attack because the invading army got hit by attrition and didn't retreat. After that, my acension into some muslim territories, the emperor protecting me from incoming attacks some luck on the western front and with only weak rebellions - and voila: BE is in business again. The main hurdle has passed I hope. Now my road to world domination is set.

 

[imperium3]

I propose making high decadence cause vassals to exponentially prefer joining factions (maybe especially independence factions). So if decadence gets high - which, for the AI, it always does - then the Fatimids or any other large Muslim blob will tend to explode in civil wars.

 

[Shadowkire]

The only thing you need to do to fix the Fatimids is remove their Invasion cb option, which is essentially what the people who mod it to target duchies are doing because you can already holy war for a duchy.

That fixes the fact that the Fatimid Caliphate accounts for 98% of all Shia rulers, meaning their jihads are like an extra free invasion. This creates a synergy where the Fatimids call a jihad, fight in that jihad, gain a lot of piety from the fighting, spend the piety on invasions, and then call another jihad to start the cycle all over.

 

[Rozmarzony]

Erm, only?
You missed civil war...

 

[Shadowkire]

I mean "The least amount of actions needed to be taken to fix the problem..."

Not "The only thing you CAN do."

 

[DominusNovus]

Most of the times when i play as the Byzzies i start in 1082, when Alexios Komnenos have gained the throne and despite being confined to Egypt itself, the Fatimids are still WAY more of a threat than the Seljuks who can't keep their realm together that long.

Same here in my Alexiad campaign. They're falling apart on the edges everywhere (the Seljuks long since fell to decadence), yet decided to conquer Ethiopia anyway. And Galicia...

And this was with my homebrew mod to disable holy wars from Muslims to Miaphysites.

 

[Hootieleece]

Somehow Decadence doesn't screw up the Fatimids enough.While usually creating a Seljuk death Spiral.

I think one of the problems is that Fatimid Sultan is Shia Caliph.He is long reigning and loved.(in Stamford Bridge start)

In my one game in LoR, They haven't touched Abyssynia but Jihaded Sicily Twice and lost to a Crusade for it.Also spent more time fighting Seljuks to Destroy Sunni Caliphate.

And just lost to a decadence revolt.

 

[BlackBarook]

A possible solution would be to change the following:
-The current leader has Egyptian culture, when he was, if I'm not mistaken, a Turk who adopted Persian customs.
-There was no Shia Caliphate. There never was, and there should not be a Sunni Caliphate either. Just the Caliphate which would be controlled by the Abbasid until someone overthrows them or usurps the title.
-Egypt was predominantly Coptic and Sunni. Legacy of Rome fixes this by bringing back the Christians, but the Muslims are still Shia.
-The current leader was also a heretic by the game standard an I'smail, not a Shia.
-The Shia faith should be turned into a heresy of the Sunni faith because it was seen as this, it wasn't until the 1500s that Shiaism became a respected sect like Catholicism to Orthodox or Protestantism to Catholicism.

 

[Comradebot]

Just to vent a bit, a really hate the freakin' Fatimids. Got a game going mostly successfully as Nubia, and even with the 1076 start they're a bit ridiculous. I've had to keep myself permanently allied to the HRE and anyone else who will have me just to survive, but there's no "break" to them. I've taken Aswan and Alexandria through holy wars, and they lost Sinai to the Seljuks, but crikey, I'm nowhere nearer to being "safe" from them. While they've lost a few counties, they've also pushed west into northern Africa (because, "lol", the duchy next door turned Ibadi and were super easy pickings thanks to that) and, as typical, won a Jihad for Galicia.

And then, as I expected, they threw a Jihad my way. Thankfully, France and the HRE both answered the call. They both only stuck around long enough to crush the Fatimid doomstacks before running off to deal with their own matters, but it was enough... still, that's what it takes. My own sizeable army, with the full force of France and the HRE at my back just to survive. And wouldn't you know it? The moment the Caliph is finally ready to give up, just as he's accepting surrender, a fully replenished Mamluk stack pops up in Cairo... despite the fact that less than a year ago I personally crushed them to the last man in Alexandria. So I've got another 10 years of Fatimid free fun times, but then what? My allies are all still busy being useless elsewhere, and my entire army doesn't replenish as quickly as one giant, might-as-well-be free merc doomstack.


Oh, and the Hashashin. "Hey guys, you know what the Shia need? A holy order! No chance it becomes a permanent fixture of the frequently ONLY surviving Shia state that, thanks to massive tech and Caliph status, will consistently have enough piety and cash to use them at will." I hate them so very much. I wish the AI would man up and chase them out of their crap holdings up north and put an end to them. The Hashashin are a wonderful idea and I enjoy watching them slaughter everyone around me when I'm a Muslim, but their status as essentially Mamluks 2.0 irks me.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Is the fact I was 100 years into the game before the patch came (and I got LoR) make it play out completely different. I'm lost as to what most are talking about. I haven't had anyone war me as Italy (except civil) ...is that unusual? I'm just bidding my time until the plague and Sicily (I presume) to be attacked. Just curious as it will take me another week or so finish this game I suspect and I'm anxious to get the full flavor of the changes...and probably play non-HRE.

P.S. I haven't done anything historically way off (to my knowledge) except create the kingdom a "tad" early.

 

[Comradebot]

And that's the problem down Nubia/Abyssinia way. There is no co-existing with the Caliphate. Either they steamroll you with a series of Jihads/Holy Wars/Invasions, or you bust your ass non-stop until they're completely annihilated... only too late to realize that now you're the giant, disgusting blob in the area. But if you give them even an inch, it's your ass.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go see if I can find a way to take advantage of their failure with the Jihad... cause next time, I may only have one powerful ally to back me up.

 

[Comradebot]

View attachment 65754

Is the fact I was 100 years into the game before the patch came (and I got LoR) make it play out completely different. I'm lost as to what most are talking about. I haven't had anyone war me as Italy (except civil) ...is that unusual? I'm just bidding my time until the plague and Sicily (I presume) to be attacked. Just curious as it will take me another week or so finish this game I suspect.

The HRE has started to put the boots to the Levant, which given the fact you're the King of Italy, means you're probably at least indirectly responsible for some of it. The Fatimids are nasty blobbers, but the HRE, ERE, and France can all be equally guilty in my experience. Which I'm cool with it sometimes... the possibility should exist that Egypt or France because a fourteenth century superpower. It can just be annoying to see happening time and time again, and that smaller states have often next to no chance of AI survival. I mean, look at poor Croatia and the Serbian minor in your game: how much longer do you think those two will still be around before the ERE swallows them?

 

[unmerged(512626)]

The HRE has started to put the boots to the Levant, which given the fact you're the King of Italy, means you're probably at least indirectly responsible for some of it.

Well I did claim Independence once and lowered crown authority, so less so (smile) ...but yeah given the insane cost of my levies you're right.

ETA: I am half asleep, I didn't realize the ERE had gotten part of Sicily (cool I can go for Nice soon after peace deal)...I didn't conquer it on purpose figuring they could serve as my retaining wall (and would likely be lost anyway) while the Hordes etc. do their thing.

 

[JohnKR]

Actually in my game Fatimids are almost no more...Abyssinia survived as muslims though but not fatimids and the ERE holds muslims at bay...Im playing as plaiologos but ive not helped in any muslim war directly

 

[HabemusZlatan]

In my current game Fatimids were gone, then they resurrected somehow. I guess it's time to take Egypt from them since those f*****s just keep jihading me despite having no chance to win the war (I have something like 80000 troops MORE than the ones they have in total, I can almost win the war using exclusively my retinue).

 

[Acularius]

Went from Greek Duke, elective succession (formed by faction, civil war success.) to Emperor, Absolute crown authority and Primo succession. Legacy of Rome.
Just keep beating the Fatamids down. They will break pretty easily if you do. As long as they don't truly gain more land then you can watch their decadence rise and strike accordingly.
Right now, I've restored the Pentarchy, mended the schism (HRE is holding out but slowing crumbling, just a couple more wars should bring them down), anf formed the Roman Empire.

Right now, the Seljuks are the last true power in the Middle East aside from myself.

 

[A_Dane]

Try and play someone who has no influence in the area, and watch what happens.. So far the fatimids goes on a rampage in all my games..