Fix AI debt spiral / alliance issues. It's been broken for weeks, and it's gamebreaking.

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grommile

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The forced bankruptcy limit is, and has always been, "your total ducats in the treasury is negative after end-of-month processing and no loan is available".
 
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Atomcreator

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When do they get back off their holidays ?
 
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Start of August iirc. So frustrating and can't roll back patches afaik if on subscription plan. Yay money wasted for a game that sits because a major patch was pushed out too quickly, only for the whole damn office to leave for a month.
 
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The AI do go bankrupt. You can check for yourself by enabling bankruptcy pop ups. What I don't know is if they can declare bankruptcy or only go bankrupt when they are forced to by the game systems.

Used to be the case that AI would declare bankruptcy on more reasonable conditions but as is the case with most everything AI related this day, it got changed and now isn't working as well as it used to.

Yeah, I know that the AI does go bankrupt. What I don't know is whether it does so voluntarily or because of forced bankruptcy.
 
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Leckan

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This year most Swedish people stop their vacation on 3rd or 10th of August. In my company I'd say half come back 3rd and half come back 10th. Maybe same at Paradox, unless they all time their vacations to be for the same period of time, due to a lot of them working in groups.

Also, is there still no mod fix for this? I am sure some people have experienced with some files, and one guy mentioned earlier here that he was making a mod for himself and might share it, but haven't heard of any partial temporary fix until Paradox officially patches this.
 
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I was thinking of starting my first game in over a year and buying the new expansion but this sounds like a bad enough bug that I need to wait. I'm not starting a four player Grand Campaign with a bug like this.
 
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Leckan

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I was thinking of starting my first game in over a year and buying the new expansion but this sounds like a bad enough bug that I need to wait. I'm not starting a four player Grand Campaign with a bug like this.

It does leave a bit of a bad taste! I just came back like you from about a year away, did half a campaign then noticed what was going on with the bug, searched the forums and found this thread. I still tried another campaign after that, but the same thing happened by the mid 1600's, where no big nations are growing in Europe because all have such a big debt that they don't go on the offensive.
 
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grommile

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This year most Swedish people stop their vacation on 3rd or 10th of August. In my company I'd say half come back 3rd and half come back 10th. Maybe same at Paradox, unless they all time their vacations to be for the same period of time, due to a lot of them working in groups.
Based on the tweet above, I'd say someone in a project management or senior (C++) developer role is back in the office.
 
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Leckan

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Based on the tweet above, I'd say someone in a project management or senior (C++) developer role is back in the office.

Looks like it, I am also in their position working already, but this week only me and one other person out of 60 at my office are working. Think that shows how serious Swedes take their vacation.
 
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XJCL

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I think just stopping AI from ever drilling unless they are fully out of debt might help. They have an unhealthy obsession with always drilling everything which means their armies are perpetually at full maintenance. Endgame it's fine but early game all these tiny dirt poor countries always drilling is probably not helping their finances.
 
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There are some quick solutions they can hopefully implement:

Change spending priorities to reduce money wasted on low-value buildings and unneeded or unsustainable mercs.

But the change that would help the most should be very simple... Implement a "budget mode", where when the AI is in debt and not in war, the AI stops spending entirely until its debt is repaid. If in war and in debt, the AI will only continue spending on war-related items (like recruiting troops).

Sure, there are times when a human player will intentionally carry and expand a debt during peacetime, but it's almost always the better long-term choice to exit debt as quickly as possible. This change would have the added benefit of causing the AI to use any gifts from the player to -always- pay their debt first.

The debt spiral is real for the human player as well. I'm sure everyone who has played a small nation in a poor part of the world has entered one at least once. The difference is that a good human player will change their play to eliminate debt whenever possible. The AI needs at least a rudimentary form of that long-term thinking.
 
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Gamergeo

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Im really sorry to say that and got problems with moderator for saying that, but for me, planning dev diary for 1.31 is close to an insult to customers.
I don't care if the only non holiday guy in paradox is the south asian guy. How they will understand they totally broke our confidence into their product?

And yes Im sorry im begin to become aggressive but im really angry at paradox right now

Ai debt spiral is just a thing, to be fair the main one, between all. Im clearly done that a company can lie to customer and all be ok.

So pdx, we dont care about 15 new provinces and 3 new tags, we want a working game. Stop adding new "stuff" which break the game and I dont know, decrease the tech debt, as intended ?

Can someone explain me why we had wait all this time and paid for that ? They lied (4k support, tech debt reduction) they broke the game (ai debt) and they add new non working features (shift click still doesnt work. Seriously, shift click. Same for forbid colonial expansion.) What did they do last year ? Is still someone on EU4 ?
 
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grommile

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The only genuinely unusual thing about the mess that is EU4 1.30 (at least for people who've been playing Paradox games since 2011) is that the player base have more free time than usual thanks to the pandemic and the release was badly timed relative to the traditional Swedish practice of "basically everyone goes on holiday in July".
 
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Silvanel

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Personally i am less bothered with the bug itself, than with company attitude. I mean there is major flaw with something they sold to us and they could not be bothered to postpone holidays for 1 week for 1-2 developers or hire outside help/move devs from other projects for a week before holidays and crunch bugs?
I mean i do not expect them to fix each and every one of existing bugs but major ones yes.
 
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Personally i am less bothered with the bug itself, than with company attitude. I mean there is major flaw with something they sold to us and they could not be bothered to postpone holidays for 1 week for 1-2 developers or hire outside help/move devs from other projects for a week before holidays and crunch bugs?
I mean i do not expect them to fix each and every one of existing bugs but major ones yes.

I sympathise with this, but I think it has a number of problems. Mainly 1. I’m not sure I like the idea of people being made to postpone their holidays to fix a bug in a game and 2. It assumes that a week is time enough to find the problem (not just a bit of the problem, the whole problem), fix the problem and then make sure changing what might be some fairly critical AI logic hasn‘t actually broken a bunch of other stuff. Seems to me a recipe for making people wait a week for their holidays and then have to wait ages to fix it properly anyway...Could end up in a worst of both worlds situation. While that doesn’t make it a bad idea, it doesn’t make it an obviously great idea either.

I’m not sure a rushed bug fix for this is really in anyone’s best interest. A temporary sticking plaster if possible would certainly be appreciated. Some sort of official view on the scale of the problem and how they plan to address it would help a lot I feel.

Ah well, I’ve managed to get into a Football Manager game for the first time in years as a result...
 
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Drachenfels

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It's incredible how much they messed up release. If you consider that they had QA company to do testing for them and yet simple stuff like checking if after clicking button feature works seem to go undetected. And then you have features like 'Mercenaries as time progresses will get worse' except they don't. Just the size of the stack goes ad infinitum Did the designer even played the game? Revolutionary centre another mess that seems to be designed but never playtested by PDX. Incredible how incompetent those guys are.
 
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Leoreth

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Based on the tweet above, I'd say someone in a project management or senior (C++) developer role is back in the office.
I wouldn't be too sure. The reply comes from their social media team, and "we are looking into the issue" and "we hope to fix this at..." wordings can mean anything from "we heard the complaints" to "someone actually looked at the problem and is ready to start implementing a fix". I mean it's great that someone finally acknowledged the issue, but I don't think significant work on this will start until the Swedish summer holidays are over.

Personally i am less bothered with the bug itself, than with company attitude. I mean there is major flaw with something they sold to us and they could not be bothered to postpone holidays for 1 week for 1-2 developers or hire outside help/move devs from other projects for a week before holidays and crunch bugs?
I mean i do not expect them to fix each and every one of existing bugs but major ones yes.
What do you envision "crunching bugs" to look like? Send programmers into the code mines and hammer the bugs until they are gone?

Fixing issues like that requires understanding of the game mechanics as well as the code that makes them interact, and for a comprehensive fix I hope they take the time to actually let multiple designers investigate the problem and brainstorm solutions before they send someone to write the AI code that fixes it. You can't just pull random contractors or people from other projects in at short notice and let them do it. Besides, all of Sweden is on summer vacation, that's not a EU4 team privilege.

You're definitely right to be angry at Paradox for both the situation and the mishandling of it, but you should also be careful not to bark up the wrong tree. Please do not demand that employees reduce or postpone their vacations, for which there is a limited window in the Swedish climate, and which they are entitled to both by contract and general cultural expectation. They are not responsible for this situation and it is not fair to demand that they take the hit for it. Despite all of its faults, one of the very positive things you can unambiguously say about Paradox is that they do not make their employees crunch.

If you want to find fault with the company, you could point to:
- the overall project schedule, which could include feature bloat and misdirected focus of time
- the decision not to delay the release further to iron out issues or at least make sure staff is at work in the weeks after release
- downsizing the EU4 QA staff
- lack of acknowledgement of the problem and communication (even if the communication had been "we will fix this first thing after the team is back from vacation" it would have been better than what we got and might have saved neondt from being harassed in the dev diaries about it)

None of these things are the fault of developers, programmers and game designers. I am sure they did the best with the timeline and resources they were given. We as consumers cannot demand that shortcomings that are clearly the fault of the executive level, project management and the PR side be covered by developers. And yeah, I'd rather see one of the executive leads take time of their vacation to at least say sorry for messing up, than seeing employees being forced back to work from their vacations.
 
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