Vin55

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What are your first impressions for the new update? These are the things I noticed:


The new monuments cause at least some powercreep. Also as they bring modifiers that stack with existing monuments like the AE reduction in Jaunpur and Ayuthaya. On top of that, there seems to be monuments that stack trade power, merchants, manpower, religious unity government capacity and perhaps the most powerful thing; Imperial Authority. Revoking the priviligia was the quickest way to do world conquest perhaps along with playing a horde and it's been made easier.

The new AE is nice but can cause a bit of a powercreep as well as you just get to expand quicker. I did a quick test. In 1.31. taking your French cores back as France was 24 AE. Now it's 19. What used to be 100 warscore is now 86. Assuming some rounding up/down was done I'd say AE was reduced by about 20%? With the possibility to reduce the remaining 80% further, including a new monument, a run like Jaunpur > Delhi > Bharat is becoming even easier than it used to be.

The new mission trees are nice; some tags in Africa are clearly boosted. The most clear one seems to be Adal that went from 41 dev to `58 and has a great new mission tree. It might be my fault but I'd like to know the requirements to form all new formables like Aksum and I can't find them. Aksum is probably Ethiopia exclusive maybe as it's mentioned in the mission tree, but I'd like it confirmed.

Overall I feel the patch makes the game easier and I'll do a run to see how much I can blob compared to the previous patch. Do people mind the game has been made significantly easier or would they prefer some nerfs? Especially the stacking effects from more monuments might be a bit OP.
It is in ethopians missions on the rights mission tree, after getting all of somalia and 25 provinces of arabia. There is then a decision to become askum or to remain ethopia but get the decision (probs for getting the ethopian ideas with the colour of askum).
 

JangoBunBun

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Yeah, AE is seriously broken. You get *more* AE from enforcing a union than you do taking the land.
 

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So, I consoled my way to AUS->BOH pu in order to get around the AE craziness.

However, now I'm getting the -50 "Controlling other Electors" that used to not be present for PUs, only for vassals.

It is entirely possible that using the console broke this, but also entirely possible this is something that should be double checked before the hot patch is released.
That always existed. Even for PUs. If you had a vassal elector then you also take a serious IA hit.
 
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SPAMbuca

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That always existed. Even for PUs. If you had a vassal elector then you also take a serious IA hit.
Are you sure? I recall for Bohemia you got the option to subjugate electors and decide what kind of subject you wanted. Some people recommended a PU just so you can both inherit them for free and because you get no opinion penalties for re election from other electors.
 
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petertju

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I appreciate and recognize your well reasoned and intelligent response that honestly evaluates not only your view but other views on the situation. While I disagree as to the degree to which I feel tolerance and latitude should be extended, especially based on the significance of the issue, the ease of catching it, my personal views on the importance of QC/QA vis a vie speed of release and the already used up well of good will for honest mistakes at PDX, I recognize your point and respectfully disagree.
That's a nice response :). This is what respectfully disagree was invented for :)
 
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petertju

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The problem is not the typo. The problem is devs didnt notice the PU thing and corrected it before release. It shows they didnt play the patch. Or at least didnt play enough.

If the blame is on content creators, coders, QA team, it doesnt matter. The blame is on the team and the firm as a whole. After the disaater Leviathan and 1.31 were all we could hope is they would be more cautious before releasing 1.32 and Origins.

I really dont understand why there are so many players who act like devs and their employer cant be criticized, as if they are deving games as a favor to us, an act of love and friendship, instead of selling products for profit.

I guess if you go to a restaurant and your dinner comes with hair on it you just say "ok, no reason to complain, just a small mistake, I know next time my dinner will not be so disgusting, if I complain now maybe the chef will get demotivated"...

Edit: indeed the bigger problem is the development one, it is gamebreaking for people who want to play tall or want to dev for institutions.
I think it is more than far to criticize them. If you look at your restaurant comparison: It is more than far to complain when you have a hair in your food. I also was very annoyed about the release of Leviathan. It is fair to criticize people that give you a service, if the service is not good enough. But let's look at the scale of the problem:

A hair in your food, is 'gamebreaking'. You can't use the product anymore, this is one of the biggest possible mess-ups in a kitchen. This is comparable with the game not starting up anymore after a patch. the PU AE problem is in my opinion not that gamebreaking, yes, we lose a feature, but you can still play the game as most countries, even in Europe. Furthermore, it is comparable with finding a hair(hah) in a haystack. Like I said before, they would have to play a game as one out of 5 countries, to notice this problem.

I repeat: it is more than fair to complain about fuck-ups, Leviathan deserved the criticism it received. But the atmosphere about this game is so negative atm, that every single mistake is seen as gamebreaking, while all the great fixes are looked over. It may sound dumb, but I'm genuinely happy that I can see cores of dead countries or that ceding colonial region doesn't make the map jump. There is enough to be positive about, just the focus is always on what isn't good yet.
 
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I think it is more than far to criticize them. If you look at your restaurant comparison: It is more than far to complain when you have a hair in your food. I also was very annoyed about the release of Leviathan. It is fair to criticize people that give you a service, if the service is not good enough. But let's look at the scale of the problem:

A hair in your food, is 'gamebreaking'. You can't use the product anymore, this is one of the biggest possible mess-ups in a kitchen. This is comparable with the game not starting up anymore after a patch. the PU AE problem is in my opinion not that gamebreaking, yes, we lose a feature, but you can still play the game as most countries, even in Europe. Furthermore, it is comparable with finding a hair(hah) in a haystack. Like I said before, they would have to play a game as one out of 5 countries, to notice this problem.

I repeat: it is more than fair to complain about fuck-ups, Leviathan deserved the criticism it received. But the atmosphere about this game is so negative atm, that every single mistake is seen as gamebreaking, while all the great fixes are looked over. It may sound dumb, but I'm genuinely happy that I can see cores of dead countries or that ceding colonial region doesn't make the map jump. There is enough to be positive about, just the focus is always on what isn't good yet.

I get where you are coming from but real world development is more complex than that. Assume 6 weeks out from release you start wider beta testing. It is a couple of weeks before you have all the critical bugs and testing on balence really begins, a couple of weeks before release you think you have it and try a final version and correct a few last bugs / anything that went wrong in the last cycle. If as part of that balence you spot the AE is higher than intended your options are to either say it is a big change and leave the ballence update for the next big release or say it is only changing a couple of numbers we can put it in. If you pick the later and someone makes a typo (0.8 vs 0.08) you introduce a bug once 95% of your testing is done. If you have a zero tollerance of bugs you develop a lot less.

The issue is more around how quickly can it be fixed (and communication around it). At my work we have been putting in a lot of effort to being able to do more smaller more frequent releases. If it was released and you knew there was going to be a bug fix patch 1 day, 1 week and 1 month after nothing big would stay around long.
 
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Torredebelem

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1.32 is way, way better than 1.31 at release and judging from what was implemented (few risky things in terms of creating new time consuming to fix bugs) it seems we paid mostly for a (rather large) host of bugfixes. All in all, I am happy for the outcome at release, even if I don't play with subsaharan African "nations" and am a pure believer that most of subsaharan africa, the native Americas & Oceania cannot be modelled by the design of the game. It is a matter of one design that simply cannot accurately or semi accurately cover the entire world.
 
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Mortmal

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They did a pretty good job in my opinion, far from the trainwreck that was leviathan. I am having fun as playing mali ,its one of those good asymetrical start, abit like playing rome in total war attila . Its managing a collapsing empire.
Not noticed any bugs in the first hours of play, of course theres the AE problem for pu now, but its not a bug just unbalanced for now. PU were too easy to manage now they are too hard.
But i am having fun again with EU4, the concentrate development nonsense is fixed, colonial powers do colonize now, portugal was very agressive when i was playing mali, eating most of maghreb and african coast.
Tinto managed to reverse the wheel.
 
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vaan24

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I think AE must be graduated according to the power of the two countries concerned (so that if Landshut has a PU with Munich it will not traumatize Europe much unlike a France-Spain PU)
 

Nuclear Elvis

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I just wanted to say here that - I have no First Impression because I have resolved to not start up EU4 until after the first Hotfix (or 2) and then give it a spin. Don't be the Crash Test Dummy.
 
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MatthewP

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I just wanted to say here that - I have no First Impression because I have resolved to not start up EU4 until after the first Hotfix (or 2) and then give it a spin. Don't be the Crash Test Dummy.
Fine, but why would you discourage other people from doing it? You’re freeloading, not being virtuous. Note I am doing the same thing.
 
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Xamadu

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I'm super disappointed that natives were nerfed back to near pre Leviathan levels due to all the complaining from the past few months. The government reforms changes basically either prevent you from reforming on your own since you need to have embraced feudalism or border someone who has it. Alternatively take the horde path, which requires mil tech 6, a pretty hefty ask since you again have no institutions and will have 50% to 80% tech penalties to get there. Also good luck gaining any decent amount of tribal land migrating and claiming land since you have to save that mil mana for tech.

If that wasn't enough to slow you down, tribal development gain was also nerfed. Gaining tribal development slows as you stockpile it. Anything more than about 6 to 10 tribal development will reduce your your tribal development rate by about 50%. So if you aren't a migratory tribe grazing in foreign lands you are basically gaining nothing.

That is also ignoring that army tradition is also bugged for natives. Applying a negative modifier onto tribal development growth. 10 army tradition is a -.01 modifier.

Also not sure if this is a bug but Totemist Rulers don't have improved traits anymore. They still get their 1 positive trait but it isn't doubled like it was in Leviathan.

As someone who has probably spent 70% to 80% playing outside of Europe and Asia as all manner of North and South American natives, as well as Australian Aborigines I find this as brutel as the AE problems people are facing with PU's right now. It makes a swath of nations I love playing just a chore and boring.
 
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holyvigil

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Real history indicates countries get their panties in a twist for multiple decades for just Milan or Naples. But getting a coalition for each expansion won't make the game very fun to play.

At this rate you might even wonder the use of PU's as regular expansion is easier and cheaper now and you get the benefits right away instead of having to integrate them after 50 years.


Or you can take all of Egypt, Syria and, a chunk a Arabia in one war and no one bats an eye lash.

I haven't had too much experience with the new patch but I an in favor of the making WC easier. It got harder and harder to the point that only the super committed could do it. When in the past a person playing for a month of game time could experience it.
 
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MrSnert

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Started Ajuuraan run, in which I've passed 1500 by now. Also did a multiplayer session yesterday. Performance has greatly improved, multiplayer is very stable and I have yet to experience any bugs (apart from some tiny stuff like icons shifting slightly or weird text).

Ajuuraan is a lot of fun. The missions are not just your straightforward conquer&claim stuff, but make for a pretty dynamic game, although the extent of it is a bit lacking (having completed most of it by 1500). I wish there were like 2 or 3 more missions once you form Somalia.
It's not exactly clear to me why I don't have the government ability buttons that for example Oman gets as an Imamate, but oh well.
I particularly love the new estate privileges. I'm actually using scholars now, shifting them in and out as needed, and I'm not so restricted now by waiting for estate agenda's to avoid the diplo rep penalties for annexation. Always good when I'm actually using added features and particularly if they make me use old features that I previously rarely used.

All in all, first impressions are very good! Particularly and most importantly the performance is greatly improved and there have been no game-breaking bugs in my runs.
 
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petertju

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I get where you are coming from but real world development is more complex than that. Assume 6 weeks out from release you start wider beta testing. It is a couple of weeks before you have all the critical bugs and testing on balence really begins, a couple of weeks before release you think you have it and try a final version and correct a few last bugs / anything that went wrong in the last cycle. If as part of that balence you spot the AE is higher than intended your options are to either say it is a big change and leave the ballence update for the next big release or say it is only changing a couple of numbers we can put it in. If you pick the later and someone makes a typo (0.8 vs 0.08) you introduce a bug once 95% of your testing is done. If you have a zero tollerance of bugs you develop a lot less.

The issue is more around how quickly can it be fixed (and communication around it). At my work we have been putting in a lot of effort to being able to do more smaller more frequent releases. If it was released and you knew there was going to be a bug fix patch 1 day, 1 week and 1 month after nothing big would stay around long.
I think we are agreeing with each other and making the same point as in how hard it is to deliver a fault-less release? :)
 

swagmeister

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Are you sure? I recall for Bohemia you got the option to subjugate electors and decide what kind of subject you wanted. Some people recommended a PU just so you can both inherit them for free and because you get no opinion penalties for re election from other electors.
Yes. It doesn't matter much though if you are already emperor since you have a lot of voting bonuses, large member state, imperial authority granting voting points as well to offset the -50 points you get for having Bohemia as a subject.
 

brifbates

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Some annoying niggly little things like certain important notifications not happening if you don't have map knowledge (institution initial spawns, protestant reformation). Ai is still pretty brain dead about attacking into HRE (looking at you Burgundy who has done it not once, not twice, but three times before 1492 in my France test game). Performance still not back to 1.30 levels, at least not in the early game. Better than release 1.31 (but it would have been hard for them to be worse) but certainly far from a polished release. Testing methodology still clearly lacking with too much reliance on hands-off overnight runs and pretty clearly only looking at the end result and not how it got there.
 
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