First contact is *way* too bloody fast

[Medu Salem]

Is it mostly because you want to engage in early conflicts that you find it to be too fast, or do you find it to be too fast even for, let's say, a xenophilic empire?

We're certainly open to changing to the times, and internally its been talked about, for example, changing the phases to 50 days, up from 30.

It's unlikely we'll make drastic changes to first contact by adding more complex interactions like some ideas have been mentioned here (albeit cool ideas), so let's focus on what can be tweaked to make the experience better.

Make it 60 days.

That said I played a couple of playthroughs now and personally I wouldn't even mind if it would take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to establish proper contact.

At least currently it is way too fast... When meet I someone I usually get spammed with contact established before I even meet anyone else and that even though I have a hand ful of science ships going all directions. Even more so if it is the shorter versions for spaceborn aliens, curators, traders, etc.

 

[Liggi]

Yeah, it'd be nice to slow it down as much as feasible. Especially for the few couple. It's spooky and I like the spookiness.

 

[Dragatus]

Fist Contact difficulty slider?

 

[Zenicetus]

I mentioned earlier that when I attacked an outpost, it merely disabled it. I would like it to be either destructible or capturable. Perhaps in the event that your borders are touching, you could capture those outposts, but otherwise they are destroyed.

This should also cause diplomatic problems. In my game, I initiated hostilities, attacked a science vessel, disabled an outpost, but received no relationship hit when first contact initiated.

There should definitely be a relationship hit. Makes no sense that you'd start a first contact war and then everything is fine when communication is established.

I'm not so sure about destructible or capturable outposts. That's the kind of thing that sounds like fun if I do it, and maybe not so fun if the AI does it to me on first contact. And the AI should definitely do that, if the player can. I think it would need testing to know if it's manageable and fun on the receiving end, as well as being the aggressor. As it is, you have at least a little breathing room if you meet a hostile neighbor.

The first contact situation is complicated because on one hand you are really limited in what you can do before you properly contact them so finishing your contacts ASAP is useful for most empires unless you want to fight them.

That's a good point. I've been playing xenophile so I didn't feel the contact chain was too fast, but that's just one side of the coin. Ideally it would be nice to have a slider in initial settings for what kind of game you'd like, but as a first step it wouldn't hurt to extend the time even for xenophiles. A little more mystery would be a good thing.

 

[Ixal]

Currently I see no point in any first contact stance other than proactive.
First contact is too quick to do anything with a hostile chance and also means hostile events have a low chance of firing in this short time, cautionous doesn't increase the first contact time by a lot and as I said, events are rare. Proactive gives me sweet influence which is especially useful at the start when rushing bottlenecks.

 

[Jman5]

I'm not so sure about destructible or capturable outposts. That's the kind of thing that sounds like fun if I do it, and maybe not so fun if the AI does it to me on first contact. And the AI should definitely do that, if the player can. I think it would need testing to know if it's manageable and fun on the receiving end, as well as being the aggressor. As it is, you have at least a little breathing room if you meet a hostile neighbor.

You have to make aggression worthwhile. Otherwise you're actively punishing yourself by going that route. Going peace nets you +50% influence and faster discovery. +50% influence is HUGE in the early game. Also, by going peaceful route, you can sit back and focus your resources exclusively on rapid expansion and research. This will let you snowball faster.

To me, the idea of an unknown hostile alien force attacking my distant outpost, sounds like a fun gameplay experience. It sets the stage for how the game progresses. No longer are they just an another alien neighbor. They're the jerks who blew up your outpost! Having an AI that just sits back and stares daggers at me would be the opposite of fun.

Setbacks can sometimes be disappointing in the near-term, but set the stage for a much more memorable and enjoyable game down the road. As long as you're not outright losing, I don't see the harm in losing a couple outposts and ships. Think of the satisfaction you would feel as your forces over run your hated nemesis who had the gall to blow up a couple of your outposts earlier in the game.

 

[TheGrinningMan]

What I don't get is: shouldn't there simply be a "first contact war" option when comms are established? They abducted my crews, so I blew up their construction ship and a couple of their outposts. Why should we stop this ball rolling just because we can now throw comprehensible insults at one another? Give me a "first contact war" option.

 

[Nebbie Zebbie]

What I don't get is: shouldn't there simply be a "first contact war" option when comms are established? They abducted my crews, so I blew up their construction ship and a couple of their outposts. Why should we stop this ball rolling just because we can now throw comprehensible insults at one another? Give me a "first contact war" option.

I'd go further on this and say that even if you decline to be at war immediately (which in this case absolutely should be operating under the "End Threat" CB as the only time to use it early, when the aliens are only just talking to us after doing heinous things), there should be a time-limited "First Contact Aggression Retaliation" CB (could operate like "Humiliate", but allows you to take outposts that border your territory) to wreck them once you've got fleets built up a little and intel to see better what you're dealing with.
Stellaris really favors too much peacefully sitting there, waiting on influence to make claims for later, like we're some established countries playing goody-goody back in Europe; these are ALIENS that kidnapped people and TORE THEM OPEN for crying out loud!