First conflict where battle losses outnumber attrition ones?

[marty99]

A penteres would have 300 oarsmen, 40 sailors, 60-100 marines on each ship, so crews of around 400; and the size of fleets can be fairly reliably gauged from the size of the naval bases, some of which have been excavated to show 300 slips. I think there's enough evidence that it's a good figure, and I've certainly seen very few arguments that it's too many.

Fair enough, it just seemed very large to me (not implausible at all, but you know how ancient writers can exaggerate these things) but apparently it is commonly accepted. Thanks.

 

[PEP]

Camarina, 255BC. 270 galleys, 100,000 dead. That's what the Roman fleet lost to a storm. Polybius describes it as the greatest naval disaster he knew of. And the Romans lost another fleet two years later in another storm. I don't think even Lepanto got close to those numbers of casualties. So yes, attrition could be more damaging than battle even before large ocean-going fleets were common.

I hadn't really thought of storms. But when an entire fleet is lost at sea it can hardly be considered "regular" attrition.

 

[Yakman]

I hadn't really thought of storms. But when an entire fleet is lost at sea it can hardly be considered "regular" attrition.

why not?

it's a loss due to weather, not enemy action.

 

[PEP]

Yes but whole fleets lost to huge storms aren't the norm at all. It happened but such losses can't be considered representative of regular operations.

 

[gagenater]

Yes but whole fleets lost to huge storms aren't the norm at all. It happened but such losses can't be considered representative of regular operations.

No in regular operations around 2-5% or so of a fleet will be lost to storms, grounding, collisions, poor maintenance, etc. on an annual basis. Exceptional storms creating massive destruction aren't limited to
The ancient world though. One of the most destructive naval events of WWII was a typhoon that hit US task force 38/58. It destroyed more US ships than all enemy actions but the Pearl Harbor attack.