First complete game finished : my remarks

[Magean]

So, first game done. Started in 1066 as the Duchy of Gwynedd, then united Kingdom of Wales, until 1453. I've of course had a lot of fun playing this game, but I chose a rather spectator country, so that I could see how the game evolves, alone. I've some remarks.

First, what started as an interesting alternative history ended with totally non plausible results. Byzantium survived and did well, keeping Anatolia, and the two Mongol khanates (Golden Horde and Ilkhanate) converted to orthodox Christianity. So far it's plausible alternative history, things that could have happened. However, this situation evolved into a total wipe out of Islam, because blobbing and conquering seems way too easy. At the end of the XIIIth century, there was not a single sovereign Muslim state in the map. Spanish Reconquista : finished in the middle of the XIIIth century. North Africa, Mali : conquered by the HRE (!!). Egypt : conquered by Sicily. The Levant : under Byzantine rule. Rest of Muslim world : invaded by Christian Mongolians. When Timur's invasion occured, only a few provinces hadn't been converted to Christianity.
So, blobbing seems too easy, and religious conversion way too quick.

Then, cultural expansion/assimilation is... crazy. Really. The king of Denmark inherited France, and one century later, half of France was Danish. Bohemia has been germanized very quickly, and so were North Africa and Mali. Hungary had taken control of a large chunk of Ukraine, non connected with its mainland... These provinces were also assimilated. Scotland conquered the Irish duchies of Ulster, Connacht and Munster, which turned to Scottish. The list can go on... Looks like I was playing in the age of mass education and uniformization. No small, isolated culture can survive. Not to speak about Mongolians, who basically destroyed Persian and Arabic cultures.
Strangely, I was the exception. The Irish duchies of Meath and Leinster, which I controlled for three centuries, were never assimilated. :blink: Does anybody know why ?

Now, about blobbing, again... I think there's not enough independence rebellions. The Irish lords often rebelled to overthrown me or the king of Scotland, but never tried to reclaim independence. That's probably tied to the culture thing.

Well, those are my main points. What do you think ?

 

[A_Dane]

IMO that's one game. In most of my games, Islam blobs and swallows most of eastern europe (or well, they did until I modded it).

However, holy wars needs a nerf, it's way too easy to use and it basically means that if the muslims ever run out of steam, they'll be gobbled up by the monster known as the HRE.

I've personally modded it so the emperor of the HRE can't use holy war, seems to work somewhat.

But, all in all, I think you're more or less right, blobbing is easy, but I'm quite sure that this is tied to wars being inexpensive. You'll rarely run out of money using your levies.

It's one of the things I miss about CKI, but oh well can't have it all.

 

[nijis]

I would say conquest in general needs a nerf, as well as cultural expansion.

Some areas were historically quite easy to conquer in this time period -- Egypt, Mesopotamia and much of Persia -- but simultaneously were very difficult to assimilate. (In fact, they tended to convert their conqueror rather than vice versa.) This is partially because of a gap between the military elites there and society: it was comparatively easy for one dynasty to come and dislodge another one. The game doesn't model this kind of social factor, and the easy-conquer areas are somewhat peripheral to play, so I would suggest slowing down blobbing in general as an alternative.

 

[yezhanquan]

Your vassals are the ones footing the bill when you use levies. So, if you are on very good terms with them, it takes a long while for the negative opinion to hit you.

 

[Casiru]

I've found that if the hordes convert to Christianity then Islam is usually wiped out. In one of my hands off games Leon and Castille didn't unite and conquered everything west of Cairo, made the new king titles and then shattered into lots of smaller kingdoms. HRE doesn't usually get involved unless they have a border with the italian islamic counts, then they seem to think Tunis is bordering malta or something since they always invade that region next giving them more another border with the Islamic world.

 

[Torngasuk]

Perhaps rather than straightforward assimilation or independence wars, there might be a special mechanic, similar to a cultural form of the decadence system used by Muslims. When attempting to subjugate or convert a large number of counties of a different culture, a great leader might arise and raise an army to free his people from your tyranny. Perhaps a member or descendant of the deposed former royal house, or someone randomly generated if there is no one suitable available.

 

[Ithvan]

I was thinking about drastically lowering the culture conversion MTTH if the two cultures aren't closely related. For instance, the HRE germanizing Tunis is preposterous, but France was pretty good at eradicating Occitan culture (Albigensian crusade).

 

[Mauer]

I haven't played an entire game from 1066 to whatever the end date is, but I agree the cultural assimilation happens way too fast, to the point that I actively give new territories to courtiers of that territory's culture to prevent the demise of an entire people, even if it hinders me gameplay wise.

Also, a bit offtopic, but why are Italian an Frankish part of the Latin cultural group but the Spanish not?

 

[Kimberly]

I was thinking about drastically lowering the culture conversion MTTH if the two cultures aren't closely related. For instance, the HRE germanizing Tunis is preposterous, but France was pretty good at eradicating Occitan culture (Albigensian crusade).

You mean drastically increase the MTTH--thus lowering the chance of the event firing.

 

[Divi]

I was thinking about drastically lowering the culture conversion MTTH if the two cultures aren't closely related. For instance, the HRE germanizing Tunis is preposterous, but France was pretty good at eradicating Occitan culture (Albigensian crusade).

French was a minority language in southern France until well after the revolution. It was good at stamping out catharism, not occitan culture. IMO, aside from the melting pots, Prussia, and Spain there should be fairly little culture conversion.

 

[Talq]

Also, a bit offtopic, but why are Italian an Frankish part of the Latin cultural group but the Spanish not?

Its help for the norman rulers of Sicily at the start of the game (as norman is also in the latin culture group).

 

[Ithvan]

You mean drastically increase the MTTH--thus lowering the chance of the event firing.

Well, yeah. That

 

[unmerged(228153)]

Strangely, I was the exception. The Irish duchies of Meath and Leinster, which I controlled for three centuries, were never assimilated. :blink: Does anybody know why ?

You usually need a land bridge for culture to spread; I think straits work as well, but much more slowly.

 

[1alexey]

I`ve seen absolutely other results, where Muslims conquered Spain and got southern France to Alps, after which i(HRE) booted them out.

Russia, Poland, lituinia and baltic states were conquered by Monglos, basically Golden Horde borders HRE.

Crusaded failed, Busantium controlls half of Anatolia, and is suffering heavy monglol invasion.

 

[Lordrac]

Perhaps rather than straightforward assimilation or independence wars, there might be a special mechanic, similar to a cultural form of the decadence system used by Muslims. When attempting to subjugate or convert a large number of counties of a different culture, a great leader might arise and raise an army to free his people from your tyranny. Perhaps a member or descendant of the deposed former royal house, or someone randomly generated if there is no one suitable available.

King Arthur Virus?? I like the sound of that..

 

[Torngasuk]

If not that, then I'd still like to see deposed monarchs and their descendants more frequently have their claims pressed to restore them to their rightful thrones. Maybe something like when someone asks you for a title and you promise them one, they could ask you to restore them to their throne, and if you fail to deliver, then they move on to somebody else's court to try it with them.

As it is now, they just seem to marry into other families and die out without a fight.

 

[Kimberly]

If not that, then I'd still like to see deposed monarchs and their descendants more frequently have their claims pressed to restore them to their rightful thrones. Maybe something like when someone asks you for a title and you promise them one, they could ask you to restore them to their throne, and if you fail to deliver, then they move on to somebody else's court to try it with them.

As it is now, they just seem to marry into other families and die out without a fight.

I'd like this. If you depose someone, they ought to be able to ask foreign rulers for help. If you successfully depose the King of France, he might come back later with the Holy Roman Emperor's armies backing him, for example.

 

[Alyiakal]

I'd like this. If you depose someone, they ought to be able to ask foreign rulers for help. If you successfully depose the King of France, he might come back later with the Holy Roman Emperor's armies backing him, for example.

This would be awesome, but I'm thinking it would require a massive AI upgrade. The mechanics to do this are there already (the player can easily do all this), but the AI seems woefully incompetent in this area.

 

[Torngasuk]

I don't think it would take that much of an upgrade: it just needs the right incentive.

 

[Kimberly]

Surely an event with the right conditions and factors would do the trick? I mean, it's not a perfect solution, but I think it might even be possible to do it in the current game.