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Antiochus_Soter

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OK this is my first time playing Crusader Kings II, I took the reign of John Komnenus II (Byzantine Emperor starting at 1118 AD). It was a disaster, the Fatimids crushed me. :(

I started a war with Cyrenaica, ruled by a dynasty known as the Suleimids. I landed in Cyrenaica with about 13,000 troops and wiped out their armies, then I started besieging their cities. It was easy, all their cities were falling like a pack of cards and I had a war score of 100%, but they kept refusing to surrender.

In the meantime, the Fatimids landed at Constantinople with about 16,000 troops and captured the province, then they captured about 2 other provinces (Thessalonika and something else). So then I pulled my army out of Cyrenaica and landed back in Greece, I waited for my army to get bigger while patiently waiting for the Fatimid army to shrink. I knew this was going to work, I just was waiting for my army to get bigger than theirs before I launched my counter-attack. Even though their war score was approaching 90%, I knew that they were getting weaker.

But then out of nowhere I get a message on the screen telling me that I have surrendered and the Fatimids accepted my surrender, the next thing I know about 80% of the Byzantine Empire has been annexed to the Fatimids. What the hell happened? They had only taken about 3 provinces and yet the computer forced me to surrender! Why?

Why couldn't I force the Suleimids to surrender in my campaign against them like the Fatimids did to me? I had a war score against them of 100% for ages. By the way the Fatimids and the Suleimids were not allies, it was two separate wars.


Here are some other questions I have from my first game:

1) I kept getting these messages that a disease has broken out in such and such a province. Am I supposed to be doing something to rectify this? Or are there specific preventative measures I should be taking before hand or to prevent diseases from spreading?

2) I got a couple of messages that "factions" had been formed and then that "dangerous factions" have developed. The thing is that all of my vassals and court members seemed to have a positive opinion of me, at least all of the opinion scores were green, positive numbers. What am i supposed to be doing to prevent factions from forming, and once they form, what am I supposed to be doing to minimize their strength / eliminate them?

3) In many of my provinces I see that there are these tiny armies of about 500 men that just stand there and I cannot seem to move them. What are those for? Are those armies that my vassals control and they do not want to use them? What is the point of such pathetically small armies to just sit there? If an enemy army of 10,000 men comes through there it would just wipe them out. Do I have to pay to maintain those armies? If so how do I get rid of them?
 

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The Fatamids probably attacked you with the Invasion CB, as soon as they reached 100% they can force your surrender, same as you!
Whenever you reach 100% warscore open diplo menu and "Offer Peace" with the point "Enforce demands". You can't refuse with 100% warscore, the AI offers sometimes surrender before you reach 100%, when you have crushed their army for example.

1. The diseases can contract a person if they are in the zone. You get less tax and have a lower supply rate in affected countys. You can't do anything against diseases, we're in the middle ages =)

2. Faction since 1.8 are the forms of rebellions. You can use your spymaster to encourage SINGLE member of the faction to leave it and never conpsire against you again. (Only the lifetime of your current ruler or theirs)
Or you can raise their opinion above 80 and they will soon leave the faction
You can check all current faction of your vassal in the intrigue menu
Indepedence factions will act at 33% of your strength and all others at 75% of your strength (personal levies and retinues)

3. Those are retinues of your vassals, standing armys which only cost gold when they're reinforcing (only the owner has to pay)
You can create retinue on your own in the military menu

An adivce, don't start with the Byzantine empire if you're new. It's not so easy as the difficulty % says.
Better try an count in Ireland to learn the basics or maybe as a vassal of the HRE/France.
 
Last edited:

Yenzen

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I would agree with the above, starting as the ERE is really difficult as a new player. A count in Ireland can be easy but perhaps a bit too uneventful.

Mathilde de Canossa in the 1066 start makes for a very good experience. You can try being a vassal with quite a bit of power, and with a little work you can form Italy and fight for your independence.
 

Antiochus_Soter

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Thanks for the advice, that is helpful. I am not sure that the "Enforce demands" is always available when you have a war score of 100%. I had a war score of 100% against the Suleimids for ages but the "enforce demands" button was greyed out and below it says their answer is "NO". So it would not let me enforce demands.

I can't believe that the Fatimids were able to get 100% war score against me and force me to give up about 80% of the Byzantine Empire after capturing just 3 provinces, meanwhile I had actually captured about 90% of the provinces of the Suleimids and they still would not accept my demands....
 

SweetHalcyHS

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A) If your warscore reaches 100%, or your ruler has been captured, you are forced to surrender.

1) No, they are simply alerts. You may wish to keep yourself, and valuable courtiers out of the provinces to prevent infection, but you cannot directly influence the diseases themselves. Diseases do happen in larger and more propserous areas, but keeping your lands barren and dry isn't exactly the smartest idea, so don't bother with that one.

2) Factions automatically form, with little you can do to prevent it. In case of some factions, like putting X on the throne, they may like the pretender better than you. Or in others, like Lower Crown Authority or Independence, exist in almost all situations, although the latter is more heavily influenced by opnion, I find. You can try to weather this by imprisoning large dangerous dukes in factions through excommunication, using your spymaster to force vassals out of a faction, and to keep opinions high. For the latter, you can especially abuse the early war with the Seljuks for a +30 "Defending against Infidels" bonus. Having a larger army than the faction also helps deter them, although this is not something you can immediately influence.

3) These men are retinues of your vassals, or their levies, but the former most likely. They cannot be controlled, and the point is that the vassals have an army of their own to use if they want to invade something. Or kick you off your throne. The reason they are so small is because their realm troop size is very small, and their Military Organization tech is low. If you check your own tab, you'll find you can only support a few thosuand in retinue cap yourself, despite being the emperor. Retinues are paid solely by their owners (your vassals in this case), and you cannot get rid of them. Other than purposely masterminding an operation in which they would get killed, like bringing the Turks to their doorsteps....

But that would be a terrible idea and completely missing the point.
 

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An advice, don't start with the Byzantine empire if you're new. It's not so easy as the difficulty % says.
Better try an count in Ireland to learn the basics or maybe as a vassal of the HRE/France.

I agree completely, Ireland ftw. Read the advice on where to start, Ireland is top of the list for most people. Don't feel too bad about losing Byzantium in a war, it would have revolted soon enough anyway!
 

yezhanquan

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If you don't mind starting later, playing as Henry II in the 1187.1.1 bookmark can be easy. You start in a very good position, but due to Henry's greed, you have to somehow get rid of 6 duchy titles to reduce opinion penalty, and the missus and 2 sons are among the disgrunted. But, if you pacify the vassals, you are in very good positions to either form Britannia OR Francia.
 

Yenzen

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A general piece out advice: As a leader of a large kingdom or an empire you always want to prioritize diplomacy and good traits. Vassals over 70 relations will not join factions. That and get a master spymaster to discourage faction leaders with the scheming option.

Remember that bring the byzantine emperor was often a short career!

And yeah, Muslim invasions of Greece are messed up.
 

Lordrac

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Start as King of Aragon or something smaller, byz empire is very difficult even for long-time players. It's also boring because you dont need to expand, and your dynasty is already large and well estabilished.
 

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I personally enjoy recommending the Kingdom of Jerusalem, 1099. Lots of heathen lands to conquer, little vassals to manage, and you also have two Holy Orders (really, cheap super-powered mercs) to aid you in your quest! And did I mention lots, and lots of heathen lands to conquer, ;P.

But on a serious note, yes, Byzantine Empire as the Doukas is not recommend. If you really wish to play the Romans, I recommend the Alexiad date of 1081, where although you are smaller, are much more stable.
 

Jeltz

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Generally in paradox games my experience is that you should start with a medium sized country, because large countries will be overwhelming. In CK2 this means a duke, particulary an Irish one since on Ireland there are few external threats and no liege who can revoke your titles. But a Duke in for example the HRE is also quite friendly to beginners.
 

Yenzen

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I personally enjoy recommending the Kingdom of Jerusalem, 1099. Lots of heathen lands to conquer, little vassals to manage, and you also have two Holy Orders (really, cheap super-powered mercs) to aid you in your quest! And did I mention lots, and lots of heathen lands to conquer, ;P.

But on a serious note, yes, Byzantine Empire as the Doukas is not recommend. If you really wish to play the Romans, I recommend the Alexiad date of 1081, where although you are smaller, are much more stable.

Did you read his post? He's not playing the Doukas dynasty.
 

Antiochus_Soter

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They should surrender at 100% warscore. The fact they haven't is most likely indicative of a bug.

It did not seem like a bug to me, it seemed quite intelligent, like they knew that i was about to lose to the Fatimids so they should keep resisting....

Could it be that they were a different religion? Maybe they can continue to resist, even with losing by 100% when it is a war against "infidels"?

Or could it be that they had some vassals that had not been defeated at 100%? (the little circle in the bottom right of the screen with the picture of their ruler is where it said I was winning by 100%).

How did the Fatimids get such a high war score so quickly? Could it be that if they capture Constantinople then they get a huge score bonus? In that case is there any way I can beef up the defences at Constantinople to insure they cannot take it so quickly?
 

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You played Rome, so you know how these titles work, its really weird you couldn't enforce peace with those holdings captured and the warscore. I would assume, normally, that you have attacked someone in a more specific claim war - in those you can't keep the provinces you win, just enforce the claim, but considering you played other titles, its really really weird what you're saying. If I'm not mistaking, the greyed enforce happens when you're offering peace to one of the allies, vassals - you have to impose peace with the leader of that alliance.

The plagues have other effects too - lower taxes and troops available in that province + characters dying.

I for one don't recommend Ireland, but for you to make saves more often to be able to replay some situation and see if you could have done things differently. I don't recommend it simply because playing an orthodox ruler is so different than playing a catholic. You should play a western figure at some point, its just as interesting or more... Oh, and loosing is part of the game, accepting to be vassal to other people and destroy them from the inside :D and so on... (of course with Invasion CB or Holly Wars you're doomed unless you win).
 

Jeltz

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It did not seem like a bug to me, it seemed quite intelligent, like they knew that i was about to lose to the Fatimids so they should keep resisting....

Could it be that they were a different religion? Maybe they can continue to resist, even with losing by 100% when it is a war against "infidels"?

Or could it be that they had some vassals that had not been defeated at 100%? (the little circle in the bottom right of the screen with the picture of their ruler is where it said I was winning by 100%).

How did the Fatimids get such a high war score so quickly? Could it be that if they capture Constantinople then they get a huge score bonus? In that case is there any way I can beef up the defences at Constantinople to insure they cannot take it so quickly?

Yeah, they got the high warscore from capturing your capital. And as for how they could avoid surrendering at 100% warscore I have no idea. That has never happened to me, so either there is some condition I have not yet triggered or it is a bug. But in your situation I would have sued for white peace instead when I start to realize I wont get my victory. Losing an invasion of greece is very bad.
 

Antiochus_Soter

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If I'm not mistaking, the greyed enforce happens when you're offering peace to one of the allies, vassals - you have to impose peace with the leader of that alliance.

Hmm, interesting, the only ally that they were able to call into the conflict was the island of Malta, could it be that when they called in that ally, they became the "leader of the alliance" because they were stronger? That is what sometimes happens in EU Rome. But the other peace options (white peace and surrender) were not greyed out.
 

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Hmm, interesting, the only ally that they were able to call into the conflict was the island of Malta, could it be that when they called in that ally, they became the "leader of the alliance" because they were stronger? That is what sometimes happens in EU Rome. But the other peace options (white peace and surrender) were not greyed out.

I have never seen the war leader switched in CK2, and somehow I doubt Malta is more powerful than Fatimid Egypt anyway. :)