First angry rant: Estates assigned at the start of the game don't make sense

[kontinos]

I agree. Estates shouldn't be assigned at the start of the game, allowing us to do what we want, but also a little tutorial prompting people to assign estates and some explanations might work.
However, i don't think it has to do with helping "newbies" but reassuring we get to play with estates.

 

[redmark]

Perhaps you were trying to add Nobles? Nobles estates are not allowed for England as they have Parliament with similar effects from assigning seats

I wasn't trying to do anything. Yorkshire already has an estate but (presumably precisely because parliament disallows estates) I can't interact with it, at all.

Checking another start, Yorkshire "... is controlled by the Nobility" (seen when hovering over the button to grant a seat in parliament, which is now disabled, as it's controlled by the nobility...).

Caen and Gascony are also controlled by Burghers.

 

[Gringovoir]

I wasn't trying to do anything. Yorkshire already has an estate but (presumably precisely because parliament disallows estates) I can't interact with it, at all.

Just to make are you using macro builder to add them or, alternatively, go to the province view and assign estate in a building tab

 

[redmark]

Just to make are you using macro builder to add them or, alternatively, go to the province view and assign estate in a building tab

I'm not adding an estate in any way. Yorkshire (and Caen and Gascony) start with one.

 

[Gringovoir]

Checking another start, Yorkshire "... is controlled by the Nobility" (seen when hovering over the button to grant a seat in parliament, which is now disabled, as it's controlled by the nobility...).

Weird. You should only have nobility if you disable Common Sense (so that you won't have parliaments).

 

[Gringovoir]

I'm not adding an estate in any way. Yorkshire (and Caen and Gascony) start with one.

Wait, so what is not working exactly?

 

[kontinos]

Wait, so what is not working exactly?

The op just wants a tabula rasa and no pre-assigned estates.

 

[redmark]

Wait, so what is not working exactly?

If England's government type "does not have estates" (as it states in the tooltip hovering over any other province of England), why does it start with three - one in England, two in France?

Does the interaction with estates work for a parliament government type which is not supposed to have them? Is Yorkshire stuck without an MP for the duration of the game?

 

[Gringovoir]

If England's government type "does not have estates" (as it states in the tooltip hovering over any other province of England), why does it start with three - one in England, two in France?

Does the interaction with estates work for a parliament government type which is not supposed to have them? Is Yorkshire stuck without an MP for the duration of the game?

England does allow estates, but just Burghers and Clergy if you have both Common Sense and Cossacks. Perhaps, you enabled/disabled these DLC at the start several times? If not, with both DLC you should be able to assign estates through macro builder (press v and go for lower tab, then choose estate and click on the provinces) and seats through province view. Interaction should be available at the government tabs with the special tab of Estates. If this doesn't work like this, than it's a bug.

 

[redmark]

England does allow estates, but just Burghers and Clergy if you have both Common Sense and Cossacks. Perhaps, you enabled/disabled these DLC at the start several times? If not, with both DLC you should be able to assign estates through macro builder (press v and go for lower tab, then choose estate and click on the provinces) and seats through province view. Interaction should be available at the government tabs with the special tab of Estates. If this doesn't work like this, than it's a bug.

All I'm reporting is what the game is telling me. All DLCs were left unchanged - all I've done is unticked two mods in the launcher.

By the way, this is 1.14 only - without Cossacks, which I've not bought. (I do have AoW, CS, CoP, ED, RP and WoN). So infact I'm not sure what estates are supposed to do (or whether they're supposed to exist), without Cossacks.


1.14 without Cossacks - no 'Estates' tab:

[/IMG]

Lincolnshire, Estates mapview, confirms government does not have estates:

Yorkshire:

 

[McKhan]

Where actually can I assign land to an estate? Can't just find the buttom to do so...

 

[Gringovoir]

All I'm reporting is what the game is telling me. All DLCs were left unchanged - all I've done is unticked two mods in the launcher.

By the way, this is 1.14 only - without Cossacks, which I've not bought. (I do have AoW, CS, CoP, ED, RP and WoN). So infact I'm not sure what estates are supposed to do (or whether they're supposed to exist), without Cossacks.

Well, here you go. Estates is a paid feature. The fact that you see some estates in the corresponding map view seems like a bug. You can report it in the bug reports section.

 

[Christopholes]

England stuff looks like a bug. As to the pre allotted estates, iirc Wiz said in a dev diary that they would be based roughly on historical data (Bishoprics for example). 1400s rulers did not distribute land optimally, film at 11.

 

[redmark]

Well, here you go. Estates is a paid feature. The fact that you see some estates in the corresponding map view seems like a bug. You can report it in the bug reports section.

England stuff looks like a bug. As to the pre allotted estates, iirc Wiz said in a dev diary that they would be based roughly on historical data (Bishoprics for example). 1400s rulers did not distribute land optimally, film at 11.

Hello, thank you for your report.
This is a known issue.
For some reason the Estates Mapmode was linked to the Common Sense Expansion (silly coders )
This will be fixed in an hotfix.
The Estates should not affect your gameplay experience if you do not have The Cossacks DLC enabled.

Asking whether the Hotfix will just remove the mapmode from non-Cossacks 1.14, or actually remove the estate.

Back to your Cossacks Estates .

 

[wingzero890]

Paradox needs to manually determine the starting estates, not have it randomly generated. This shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Paradox needs to manually determine the starting estates, not have it randomly generated. This shouldn't even be a debate.

I'm pretty sure it's debate since there are at least two different possible answers/solutions.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Paradox needs to manually determine the starting estates, not have it randomly generated. This shouldn't even be a debate.

We currently do both. Random generation is only done if there aren't enough prescripted ones. The ones the OP are complaining about are manually preset estates. These roughly reflect history and means that some countries will have to handle their estates a bit if they want to have optimal use of their land. This is intentional, the estates are factions that existed before you took over just as much of the setup in 1444 varies from tag to tag. Obviously estate land ownership is something quite abstract so you can probably find some things in the initial setup to disagree with but the idea is that it should reflect history rather than what is optimal. If you do find one area or another to not have a setup you agree with going from history then I suggest bug reporting with sources and it may be changed.
However an early modern monarch having to trample the rights of the nobility, burghers or even clergy to make the most of his country seems far from odd to me and reflecting this is in fact one of the major goals of this system It's not that hard to confiscate and reissue the land as Castille, I did it myself in the dev MP recently.
Some tags also start with some estates more powerful than others. Mamluks will have stronger Amirs entrenched in more land. The Indian Sultanates will have more powerful Dhimmi factions, and so on.

EDIT: The England issue reported in this thread on the other hand is a bug and has been reported as such in the bug forum

 

[Gringovoir]

We currently do both. Random generation is only done if there aren't enough prescripted ones. The ones the OP are complaining about are manually preset estates. These roughly reflect history and means that some countries will have to handle their estates a bit if they want to have optimal use of their land. This is intentional, the estates are factions that existed before you took over just as much of the setup in 1444 varies from tag to tag. Obviously estate land ownership is something quite abstract so you can probably find some things in the initial setup to disagree with but the idea is that it should reflect history rather than what is optimal. If you do find one area or another to not have a setup you agree with going from history then I suggest bug reporting with sources and it may be changed.
However an early modern monarch having to trample the rights of the nobility, burghers or even clergy to make the most of his country seems far from odd to me and reflecting this is in fact one of the major goals of this system It's not that hard to confiscate and reissue the land as Castille, I did it myself in the dev MP recently.

Thank you for the answer. Just out of curiosity what were the real world examples of burghers and nobility that motivated putting an estate here or there? Also were you able to milk 100-150 monarch points every 5-10 years with reassigning the estates?