First angry rant: Estates assigned at the start of the game don't make sense

[Gringovoir]

Centers of trade are assigned to Nobility and Clergy (Sevilla to Nobility e.g.), highest manpower provinces are not assigned to Nobility (Salamanca is assigned to Clergy). No checks seems to have been made with regard to initial autonomy. Why can't player decide at the beginning which provinces to assign rather than revoking it a year later? Revoking a year later also seems to decrease the loyalty by twice the amount that provinces provided. A better algorithm at the start was needed or player should have been able to make decisions.

Edit: First wrongly stated that Sevilla and CoT was assigned to Burghers. It was assigned to Nobility. Which of course was not making sense to me.

 

[delpiero1234]

Are you really surprised about that?

 

[Beanicus]

I'm guessing Paradox decided to pre-assign estates so that players can get stuck in faster/so newer players aren't overwhelmed. Though perhaps it could be an option to have them unassigned at the start for more experienced players?

 

[Gringovoir]

I'm guessing Paradox decided to pre-assign estates so that players can get stuck in faster/so newer players aren't overwhelmed. Though perhaps it could be an option to have them unassigned at the start for more experienced players?

That could be true, but the algorithm should have been better.

 

[Stormbringer]

Why would you have the option to assign them yourself? In some cases these are bishoprics that have been granted to the church a few hundred years ago. Sure, that is not the optimal distribution, but that doesn't mean it's not the way it should be.

 

[GChapman]

Is it random, thus different every game. Otherwise pi might want to reflect reality. Dont know if they succeed in the reality.

 

[Damarow]

ok if it is random, then I'm against predetermined estates.

In my opinion it should be either historical or possible to start without assigned estates.

 

[Gringovoir]

Common guys, how can it be historical? It's an abstraction.

 

[Will Steel]

Why would you have the option to assign them yourself? In some cases these are bishoprics that have been granted to the church a few hundred years ago. Sure, that is not the optimal distribution, but that doesn't mean it's not the way it should be.

Whoever was playing Castille in CK2 right before EU4 era was really bad at distributing titles and controlling his bishops and CA it seems.

 

[semaphore]

I have no real idea on how clergy and nobility should be distributed, but:

Centers of trade are assigned to Burgers

Historically, the burghers class emerged as city commerce developed. Many were often traders. Seems like giving them centres of trade makes total sense?

 

[Gringovoir]

I have no real idea on how clergy and nobility should be distributed, but:



Historically, the burghers class emerged as city commerce developed. Many were often traders. Seems like giving them centres of trade makes total sense?

Sorry I misstyped. Cot of Sevilla was assigned to Nobility, which didn't make sense.

 

[masteriw]

So you basically want the game to min-max for you even at the start of the game?

 

[Gringovoir]

So you basically want the game to min-max for you even at the start of the game?

I want the game not hurt me at the start, i.e. I want to select provinces myself. 25% autonomy in wrong places is not the nicest gift. )

 

[Beefpiston]

I want the game not hurt me at the start, i.e. I want to select provinces myself. 25% autonomy in wrong places is not the nicest gift. )

Why? Outside of the Estates system, plenty of nations start with the game hurting them from the start. England has a terrible king, Castile has a terrible heir. Those can really hurt you at the start.

It's strictly just my opinion, but I feel like dealing with the cards you've been dealt is kind of the theme of the game. Bad luck, disasters, terrible events, etc.

 

[Gringovoir]

Why? Outside of the Estates system, plenty of nations start with the game hurting them from the start. England has a terrible king, Castile has a terrible heir. Those can really hurt you at the start.

It's strictly just my opinion, but I feel like dealing with the cards you've been dealt is kind of the theme of the game. Bad luck, disasters, terrible events, etc.

I agree but it doesn't apply here. Usually paid features provide a positive bonus rather than negative. Second, we want more strategic choices, not just random obstacles, especially when there is a new system involved.

 

[Golladan]

Is it random, thus different every game. Otherwise pi might want to reflect reality. Dont know if they succeed in the reality.

Maybe some are? But not all. I see quite a number of provinces that have an estate predefined in their history file.


Also, Centers of Trade provinces are stuff that you would want to give to the Burghers. Since they increase trade power in the province.

 

[Gringovoir]

Maybe some are? But not all. I see quite a number of provinces that have an estate predefined in their history file.


Also, Centers of Trade provinces are stuff that you would want to give to the Burghers. Since they increase trade power in the province.

It seems people talk about two different definitions of randomness: randomly assigned by devs vs randomly changing provinces at the start of the game

 

[redmark]

At startup, England seems to have an estate in Yorkshire (according to the Estates map view), but mousing over it gives no information; mousing over another province says estates are not possible with this government type.

 

[GC13]

Why? Outside of the Estates system, plenty of nations start with the game hurting them from the start. England has a terrible king, Castile has a terrible heir. Those can really hurt you at the start.

You can't choose your ruler, or your heir. You can choose a lot of other things. If idea groups were assigned randomly in later starts and you started a game as Switzerland with Naval selected, you'd be right to say "no player would be stupid enough to select Naval with no ports, so why should I be randomly assigned it?"

The assignment of some provinces to estates is a really simply optimization problem, not a "choice" for a player to make; if it can be handled by a basic algorithm, then it's best just to start it optimized from the beginning.

 

[Gringovoir]

At startup, England seems to have an estate in Yorkshire (according to the Estates map view), but mousing over it gives no information; mousing over another province says estates are not possible with this government type.

Perhaps you were trying to add Nobles? Nobles estates are not allowed for England as they have Parliament with similar effects from assigning seats